how far is too far to jump a berger

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by taxidermybydavid, Mar 29, 2011.

  1. taxidermybydavid

    taxidermybydavid Member

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    I am shooting a 6.5 x 284 Shehane, it really likes the 140 grain Nosler Competition, but the bc isn't so good on those bullets. I would like to be able to shoot the 140 grain hunting vld. i do now, with a 20 thou. jump and they shoot great, but I want to be able to get them to fit my magazine. I do have a wyatts extended box magazine, so they can me 2.95 or so long. is that 120 thou jump too much? what determines the accuracy of the load, as long as they start straight shouldn't they shoot straight too, no matter the jump?
     
  2. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    I don't think anyone knows why certain distance to the lands matters, but it does for sure.
    At what distance YOUR barrel will like? No way to know or predict it...
    There is no set value. It's simply the best you can do with what you have. Could be anything.

    What I do is pick a distance to begin that leaves room for adjustment both ways. I use a random, moderate load, and adjust seating for tightest grouping. Then I follow up with powder adjustments for better grouping still. Then I tweak seating both ways to validate that it's right where it should be(in it's performing band).

    Since you'll have to be ~120 off, you can start at ~130off and adjust for best grouping with what your bound to. Then, load develop with powder, etc.
    If the bullet doesn't give you what you need from there, change bullets, or concede to single shot with a follower instead of a magazine, and start over.
     

  3. trebark

    trebark Well-Known Member

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    Generally speaking the VLDs like less jump. I typically set them at .005 to .010 off the lands. The longest jump I've seen that produces consistent results is .020. I think .120 would be too long but you will never know until you try.
     
  4. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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  5. jrw1976

    jrw1976 Well-Known Member

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    In the 2 rifles I shoot VLD'S in they both shoot good at 2 depths, .010 and .050 off the lands. One rifle shoot great at either measurement but the other gun will give a flier every once in awhile at .010 off. All you can really do is give it a try and do everything you can to get the accuracy you want and dont rest untill you are satisfied. Because that is the beauty of shooting it is all about your satisfaction.

    Good luck, Jason
     
  6. taxidermybydavid

    taxidermybydavid Member

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    Mike i did see the sticky at the top of this section and have read it a few times, and i have heard from all different people before about how far they have jumped their bergers. I guess the only real answer is after i get some trigger time with these loads that are short. and if they don't shoot all that great maybe build a long action hunting rifle in the same caliber :D! or just shoot them single shot. I just don't want to spend too much time trying different bullets and limit my barrel life. But thanks guys for all the quick responses.
     
  7. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    Just tryin to help
    Single shot should not be scary. You take the shots you're confident in, or not.

    I would take accuracy(which is defined with a single shot) over capacity every time in LR hunting.
     
  8. taxidermybydavid

    taxidermybydavid Member

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    thanks Mike all advice is greatly appreciated, i will probably just continue to shoot them like you said, single shot. do you know how the 130 grain vlds compare in length to the 140 grain vld hunting bullets. I would love to think they would fit better, better bc and lighter weight than the 140 gr noslers. so i would be able to push them that much faster, all around better maybe? what do you guys think? i belive any bullet with a high bc has the same problem in a short action gun, too long! Any imput from you guys would be greatly appreciated, and thanks again Mike for your help.
     
  9. taxidermybydavid

    taxidermybydavid Member

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    The wind finally died down this past weekend for me to test my bergers, all I can say is wow! Jumping them 120 thou. did work, tiny little group 3/8 inch at 200 yards! I did have some loaded with a 10 thou jump and they shot about an 1 1/2 group, still not too bad under MOA. So i think i might be on to something with this load, the second set of that load was 7/8 inch at 200 yards the wind started kicking up, I was shooting off the tailgate of my truck. My friend that built my rifle for me was there and he was amazed at how good my rifle performed, he checked my loads and said I was just starting to show pressure signs, so he was going to drop my load back about 1/2 to 1 full grain of powder. I just thought you guys would find it pretty interesting that you can shoot Berger VLD's with out jambing them into the lands.
     
  10. BradArnett

    BradArnett Well-Known Member

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    Well in my 243AI I made the switch to the 105VLD after burning up about 1000 105Amax's. My chamber was cut for the 105Amax and when loading the VLD to mag-length they are jumping .040". I just backed off my Amax load by .5gr and shot them. I wanted to check my zero to see how far off it was from the Amax's and shot these 3 at 200yds. I was laying in the snow with the rest shown in the second pic and nothing under the butt. This rifle also has 500 rounds through it since it last seen a cleaning rod so this was good enough for me. You can jump VLD's and get them to shoot.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  11. rscott5028

    rscott5028 Well-Known Member

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    taxidermybydavid,

    Nice shooting.

    Plus, the preferred jump and COAL for your loads may shift over time due to throat erosion.

    -- richard
     
  12. taxidermybydavid

    taxidermybydavid Member

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    Nice looking rifle Brad, what are the specs and color schemes on that stock? I will be changing mine pretty soon, right now I have a B&C Medalist varmint stock, it's ok but real bulky. Can you tell me the specs on your rifle too, my rifle looks like it could be your's big brother minus the stock.
     
  13. BradArnett

    BradArnett Well-Known Member

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    No problem David, It's built with....

    Old Rem700 S/A that this is the 3rd barrel I've had on it (not all 243AI's though)
    Fluted Rock Creek Rem. Varmint Contour, 1-9"tw @24" in 243AI.
    McMillan A5 in ADL molded in 50/50 Black/Orange.
    Seekins Rings/Rail
    Mark4 3.5-10x40

    The above pic was late in the day and the lighting sucked for showing the stock colors. This is a better pic of the stock.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. taxidermybydavid

    taxidermybydavid Member

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    Thanks Brad, that 50/50 black and orange is sharp looking, I have seen a few rifles with that stock, i really like it. Mine will be wearing one as soon as i can swing the funds. Might be tricky with the wife though, all my stock combinations are all olive with black web, might be hard to sneak that in the house, lol. How is that ackley working out for you? i think the next build i do will be a 260 ackley. I have had numerous 243's and they just seem to lack a little something in the energy. Have you always gone with the Rock barrels? i have heard nothiing but good things about them, i even considered them for my rifle but needed one quicker than they could deliver. Awful hard to wait on a barrel when you want to shoot right now, :D!