How Do You Shortcut Load Dope?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by hoghound, Dec 24, 2006.

  1. hoghound

    hoghound Well-Known Member

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    How Do You Shortcut Load Dope?.
    Is it possible, and if so what tools and information is needed?
    How would the Military deal with this issue?

    Let's say I'm in Texas and I have my load dope to the tee. Now I take a trip to Montana or Colorado. The only thing I have not altered is the rifle's zero and loaded rounds specs. Keep in mind the means of travel was by plane. So how do I get my load dope in the new environment? Lot's of things have changed IE. Temp,Bar PSI,Altitude,Humidity and what else...That's right!!! the BC and velocity at which the bullet and load was developed. So how does one start? Didn't pack the chrono took a plane remember. Is there a shortcut or is he SOL.

    Tim
     
  2. davewilson

    davewilson Well-Known Member

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    my understanding is that's what the exbal program is all about.you have to have all of the info when you developed your load and it will compensate for all the changes you mentioned.maybe someone that uses it will jump in.
     

  3. 41mag

    41mag Well-Known Member

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    PLANE/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif you know they ain't gonna let us on a plane with all the crap we haul with us. Hell it took us two trucks just to go to CO, the first time, and we camped out in a 4 bdr house. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    Hey bud hope you all have a great one, it has rained 2" here since about 3 this morning. Mostly just been looking off the back porch and hoping not to see anything that I might have to clean. LOL

    Give everyone a hug for me and I will see ya in a couple.

    Oh yea, we ain't gonna let no dope screw us out of a great hunt, we had a great one last time and figure next time should be just as much fun.

    LAter,
     
  4. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

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    First of all a person should have shot in his dope to the general range he will be shooting in the west. (not a problem for you with all the hogs you got to test on). Then in theory all he would have to do is to reverify his zero and run a ballistics program to get the new drops.

    In reality that did not work for either Jimm nor me. We had to reshoot our guns at 700 yards to get a new drop curve. At 700 yards he was low and left and I was high and right. We both had verified our zero the day before the hunt began.

    My advice is when you get to where you will hunt to not only recheck your zero but to shoot at least one long range drop somewhere around 700 to 1,000 yds.

    Never trust a computer. It only tells you what you told it. Believe what your gun tells you.


    Now then for a drop chart that will match your new drops, you can either take about a dozen different variations of BC and muzzle velocity so you will have a curve that resembles the new drops or :

    You can make up a blank drop table and fill it in with new values if you find yoru curve has changed.

    Given what happened to me last Fall, I am going to do both things plus I take my laptop and maybe Santa will bring me a PDA to take.

    I will repeat what I said. Trust your gun and what your eyes see your gun do. Have faith in yourself, not the computer. The computer only gives you back what you put into it.
     
  5. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    Tim,

    After writing the below stuff, I think you opened a can of worms!!!!!

    I have been thinkin' about heading for TX for some pork. Some of the rifle zero considerations include:

    Working up the load here in winter temps. The load will be the 169.5gr WC ahead of 98.2gr of US 869 for 3250 - 3276 FPS depending on temp (about 10* to 25* temp range) @ 4450 MSL.

    Now I go down there and would expect to only have to reset the 300yd zero and shoot at 500 and 800 or so to verfy the new BC. Then go hunt.

    But, I've been gathering from you and Mike that my load may be too "hot" for your neck of the woods. If that is the case I would expect to develop as "low/warm country" load a grain or 2 less than my high/cold/low humidity neck of the woods.

    The pressure consideration, I don't think would be that much of a thing, for less intensive cartridges than the AMs.

    For example I would also bring a 338 RUM or an open sighted #1 in 375 H&H for for a stopper and wouldn't expect to have to change powder weight in either of these as each is a "less intensively designed" cartridge, if you catch my meaning. With the 338 WIN and 338 RUM I had several grains more powder to go before any bolt lift pressure occurred. With the AM, if I load it up to "just below" where I have bolt lift tension, it doesn't take much in additional powder or temperature to go beyond where pressures are comfortable..

    If I went to the mountians of Colorade, Alaska, Montana (75 miles) I wouldn't change a thing. I'd just rezero and verify BC. If I went to LA/TX or the jungles of Central/South America I'd consider working up a lower pressure load.

    The best bet is to do as buffalobob did which is drive and rig your RCBS Jr to your back bumper. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

    Or ask him the difference between his Salmon Idaho loads and his VA/MD loads in that 7 AM.

    As I'm typing I'm thinking: What if, if I came down there I used the RSI pressure trace thing and got some good base data then RSI'd the same load down there. That would be a heck of a drive for 5 or 6 shots but hey, any sacrifice for LRH. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    The bottom line is that if you have enough interest some good data could be gleaned. I'm open to any ideas that you may have. Even the far fetched ones /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
     
  6. 41mag

    41mag Well-Known Member

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    Hey Roy,

    If your gonna make the trip, might as well bring the pressure trace stuff. It would make a great tool for comparing the differences in the loads.

    As for those stoppers, shoot if they get close enough I am worried about them not stopping, there gonna have to eat their way through my Redhawk and the 210's first. Heck, even if I get got, one of us is gonna be way worse off than the other, and hopefully I can control my bleeding. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    As for the loading on the go like BB did, I have it all set up in similar fashion and have used the receiver hitch in a pinch.
     
  7. ART338WM

    ART338WM Member

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    Although my experience is limited, it is worth telling. My friend and I were lucky enough to be drawn for a premier elk unit back in 03. We both are also quite fortunate that our rifles of choise are quite accurate. Mine is a .338wm, my partners is a .300wm. I also took along a back up rifle in 7mmstw. We both developed 1MOA reloads with RL-22. We both shot at all ranges out to 400yrds prior to going. The weather most of our shooting was done in was typical for spring and summer in NW Indiana and west central IL, that is warm and med to high humidity.

    The day before the rifle opener we both checked the zeros of our rifles out to 300yrds. No change in POI what so ever in any of the three rifles.

    We both killed mature bulls, his at 100yrds mine at 60yrds. Because we both were fortunate enough to have been blessed with close shots, I felt it would be of great importance to see if our POI changed at all at longer ranges. We both shot to 500 yards and did not experience any significant POI changes. None that would have resulted in missed elk at any rate. Total shots fired while checking zero as well as while long range shooting were 25 each rifle.

    The conditions were we did this were:
    <>Elivation 8,000'+
    <>Temp in the low 20s
    <>Extreamly low himidity as we were in high desert.

    I was quite plesently surprised as I was led to belive that Alliant powders like RL-22 tended to be tempriture sensative. So based on my limited experience, I would say unless you are hunting in temps a lot colder than 20* your POI should remain the same.

    Our reloads as fallows.
    <>338 Winchester magnum
    75 grains RL-22
    Nosler Partition 225 grain
    Federal #215 magnum large rifle primer
    Winchester brass new never fired
    <>7mm STW
    77 grains RL-22
    Nosler Partition 160 grain
    Federal #215 magnum large rifle primer
    Winchester brass new never fired
    <>.300 Winchester Magnum
    75 grains RL-22
    Nosler Partition 200 grain
    Federal #215 magnum large rifle primer
    Federal Gold Match brass fired once.
     
  8. hoghound

    hoghound Well-Known Member

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    PLANE you know they ain't gonna let us on a plane with all the crap we haul with us. Hell it took us two trucks just to go to CO, the first time, and we camped out in a 4 bdr house.

    Ain't that the damn truth.

    I believe all of you are right. The ex-ball program is a must. I really think a chrono should be a part of the arsonal packed when going to unknowns. Guessing BC is realitive easy to figure, but it hinges on velocity, along with other things. Don't know anybody that can guess the velocity at different temps let alone the other stuff accuratly without these gadgets. Shoot the load thru the chrono at your destination at known ranges and figure your drop dope. I just don't see anyway to shortcut the procedure.

    Just this weekend I checked my summer load against the conditions we are having now. We are talking a 34* temp change with a 250fps in velocity drop. That's a huge differance when you are shooting 1k plus yards for a precision shot.

    Communication amongst us.

    I like to see peoples loads posted with all different calibers, however I think it we could benefit more from each other if the poster could help fill in the blanks with the conditions the load was shot in, such as:

    270am
    169.5 WC
    92.5gr. H-869 @ 3300fps
    Elev. 165
    Temp. 94*
    Bar. 30.6
    Hum. 70%

    Maybe we could have somewhere designated on the board a place for such info. I think it would be interesting and help out a-lot of folks.

    Thanks Tim
     
  9. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    Tim/Tx

    You're pretty much spot on w/your suggestion. Lemme see what I can rig up.
     
  10. hoghound

    hoghound Well-Known Member

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    Roy, I went squirel hunting Sat. morning and thought of you and had a good laugh with the tree next to me.

    I was sitting under a tree and spotted a big ole boar hog coming straight at me about 50 yards away sporting his tushes and me armed with only a 22 open sight rifle and thought to myself, I wonder what ole Roy would do about now. Would he squill, shoot or s--t. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

    I just started tinkerin with a different powder in the 270am which is giving outstanding velocites and 5-8 fps at the most. More testing before I post.

    Tim