how do you blow out the shoulders on a stw?

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by antitactical, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. antitactical

    antitactical Well-Known Member

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    I recently picked up a trg-s sako brand new in the box. It's in 7mm stw and I could not find nosler brass for it. I settled on 8mm Remington magnum nosler brass and I am going to run it through the die but then I need to blow the case back out. I ask this because I got some old remington 8mm stuff with the gun. I ran it through the die and then filled the case approx 1/3 with pistol powder then topped off with cream of wheat and stuffed a tissue in the neck. I shot it to blow out the case like a ppc. Needless to say the bolt was plenty sticky and it blew out the primer pocket. (it was quite loud too.) I didn't want to shoot all the cases with a regular load because of a stw barrel life. I also don't want to screw up almost 3$ a piece case of nosler brass. I've done the case forming in a lot of smaller calibers but nothing this big. Thanks for any help.
     
  2. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    The simple and safe way to fire form it is to = Size with the proper die, load with a mild load for
    that cartrige and shoot it.

    I dont substitute powders and dont like squibb loads because they can cause problems (as you
    found out).

    This method is safe as long as the head space is within the limits (.001 to .006 thousandths) and will chamber. it also does a good job of fire forming. also in many cases it can be accurate enough to hunt with (Less than 1 MOA).

    Sometimes when using a squibb (Very low velocity and pressure) the cases have to be fired several
    times before they fit the chamber well.

    Hopes this helps.

    J E CUSTOM
     

  3. AZShooter

    AZShooter Well-Known Member

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    JE's method is useful. A friend is doing that approach with his 22-250 AI. He is getting 22-250 velocities with excellent accuracy. Once he does this to all 200 pcs he will work up an AI load.

    An alternative is to install a rechambered a rem 7 Rem Mag takeoff barrel with the same reamer and use it to fireform all your brass.

    I have seen Dave Miller the gunmaker show up at the range to fireform his brass. He has an old Mark X action with a short barrel chambered in 300 Weatherby that is bolted to a huge chunk of aluminum. He then clamps this to the concrete bench. He will shoot at least 10 in a row. By then the barrel is very hot and the heavy plate has relocated enough that he has to move and reclamp. He says he won't use virgin brass in his hunting rifle. I have thought of trying his method with a future rifle.
     
  4. Lefty7mmstw

    Lefty7mmstw Well-Known Member

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    Stop for a second here guys.....
    The only difference between the 8 rem and 7 stw is neck diameter. NO FIRE FORMING IS NECESSARY....

    Neck, square your brass in a trimmer, load and shoot. The first firing will be similar to having new 7stw brass and the head space will grow to where your rifle's chamber is. Have fun.
    Another note; you don't need a third of a case of pistol powder to cream of wheat fire form. A five to 10 grain dump will do and you should try to run it as low as possible while still getting form. I personally dislike this way as it'll soot your pipe up good.
     
  5. antitactical

    antitactical Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the help. I guess I am going to shoot some light loads. I was just cautious because a 7mm stw isn't exactly polite to barrels. The case looks like it has less taper than a 8mm rem mag. I bought the gun originally to turn it into a 30-338 Lapua Ackley improved. The 995 action is big enough to handle the horsepower but I am growing fond of the stw.
     
  6. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    You are right about the chambers being the same except for the neck, but Each chamber is
    slightly different and it is recomended that to obtain maximum accuracy you should fire a
    case at least once in the chamber before loading for accuracy.

    When a squibb load is used the case is not forced into the chamber hard enough to be consistant
    from one case to another. This is the reason I use medium loads to fire form brass. (Fire
    forming does not have to be only when blowing out shoulders or case body's) It is actually every
    time you fire a round for the first time in a particular chamber. After that most size only enough
    chamber. This keeps the case more consistant and extends brass life.

    In fact I like to fire form new brass, then size it to just barely chamber, trim all the cases to the
    same overall length and then weight sort to be the most consistant.

    J E CUSTOM
     
  7. Lefty7mmstw

    Lefty7mmstw Well-Known Member

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  8. antitactical

    antitactical Well-Known Member

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    I don't have a lot of experience in the larger calibers. I load a lot of ppc, 6br, 6 remington,and so on. the only other big guy I have is a .338 win mag finnbear sako. I know it matters a lot on the smaller cases. I guess its not as critical when you're dealing with 80+ grain powder charges. I am more of a varmint/ benchrest shooter.Thanks again for all the help.
     
  9. Lefty7mmstw

    Lefty7mmstw Well-Known Member

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    I don't really shoot a lot of smaller stuff. I do have an AR and shoot a 22-250 savage striker occasionally, but other than that it's mid- cal's and bigger.
    The stw will index pretty well on the belt and the long case; I believe that's why it still does alright with new/unformed brass.
     
  10. 7stw

    7stw Well-Known Member

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    The really GOOD thing about fire forming STW brass out of 300, or 375 HH brass, is that you can get some NORMA brass in that flavor, then you will have the best that there is. Maybe I'll play that game someday. HMMMM!
     
  11. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    I've been putting holes through things with the stw for 15 years with two different rifles. My father has also has two of these, but he still has his first. Both of mine(and the one my father still has) will shoot under 1/2 moa with any brass you put into them. I've shot cloverleafs fireforming 375 h@h brass. It really isn't necessary to pre-fire your brass here( I would blow out h@h brass first because of the volume difference). You are peeing into the wind for the most part.


    Not to start an argument, just to clarify. I normally do not Quote a negative remark just the ones
    I think are good advice to keep a productive post, so bear with me.

    I have one of the first 7 STWs that were built when Lane Simpson first came out with it and we
    used 8mm Rem Mag brass because there was no such thing as 7 STW brass for years. In fact it
    was called a 7mm/8mm Rem. There also was a 30/8mm Rem.

    A square was the first to produce loaded ammo for it and I still have all of the brass I started with.

    If trying to get the best accuracy and brass life is peeing into the wind, I am guilty. My loads were
    140 grain partitions at 3550 ft/sec and by not over sizing and annealing the necks I have not had
    to throw away any brass.

    My "starting" point for accuracy is 1/2 MOA and I have been able to squeeze 1/10th MOA groups
    out of the STW by careful loading and minimal sizing. So I,m glad you are happy with the
    performance you get. For long range hunting/shooting I feel that a 1/2 MOA group is the max group
    size and 1/4 MOA or less is a good goal for the sport.

    I only post my beliefs and methods to help those that are interested. NO ONE HAS TO DO ,OR
    FOLLOW THESE SUGGESTIONS.

    As a craftsman and a gunsmith I consider everything important to acheave the best and consider
    nothing as just "pissing in the wind" .

    J E CUSTOM
     
  12. Lefty7mmstw

    Lefty7mmstw Well-Known Member

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    JE, I really don't think we are that far apart here, but we do diverge on shooting your brass first. I DO respect your opinion, don'y get me wrong on that. I try to abide by the K.I.S.S. principle though and make as little make work as possible while still turning out good ammo.
    I'm down to .22" at 100 yards for my tightest groups with my current rifle with the 171 barnes and rl25 with brand new brass; simply trimmed and loaded not played with otherwise. My last rifle would shoot cloverleafs without trying with any brass. The last group I fired with this rifle was a .4" at 100 with a load it didn't even really like re-sighting with a 6x scope for trade. The rifle had 1500 rounds on it and the rifling was getting very tired.

    My current rifle has rather soft wood and the action screws were backing out every couple of boxes of ammo. I've pillar bedded her, and all is well now, so I'm going to re-run my loads to see what I missed last year.
    I simply used sub half moa as I don't brag and everyone garfs a group now and again and that's where those usually land.
     
  13. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    It does sound like we are not far apart. and I apologize if I came on strong, but as I readily admit,
    I am anal about everything related to shooting the best I can and depend on the quality of the
    re-loads and the rifle to assist me. (I want the rifle to be better than me all the time).

    Like you I don,t brag about group size To me it a measurement of the quality of the rifle and ammo.
    I know that there are people that could take one of my rifles and using my pet loads could out
    shoot anything I could/have done because there is allways someone that can out shoot me on any
    given day.

    Thanks for the reply.

    J E CUSTOM