How are you leveling your anti cant device???

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by HuntFarther, Oct 13, 2013.

  1. HuntFarther

    HuntFarther Well-Known Member

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    My question comes from so many shooters shooting one rifle and have different point of aims. Like my shop rifle. I have put the flatline ops levels on and been playing with them and seems like I am chasing a fairly tale. .

    Here are the ways that I have tried.

    1. Just using talley one piece lightweight rings and using my wheeler leveling kit. Has the level for the turret caps and the barrel clamp level. I will level off the rings or base and try to compare. Have done both. I have also used a short torpedo level across the rings. Once satisfied I will put the barrel clamp on. Then I will mount the scope.

    on huskemaws I will level off the turret/ or turret cap. And set the flatline level. .

    On nightforce I have both pulled the turret cap and tried leveling off the cap.

    2. Doing above but using wheeler bolt raceway level and set barrel clamp, and hang a plump bob and level the scope and set the crossairs then put the level on.

    3. I have also used the nightforce picatinny rail and leveled off of it and and set the barrel level and then go through the process. This time I finished up with using the inverted T process and then set the level.

    I am just at a lost I have tried alot of different ways and have seen the results and corrected what I though could have went wrong. And things still look off. I have sighted in using the level and then work my way out and things seem to be fine but I can tell for sure that the crossairs are not level, and that I am only doing the same thing all the time that is helping in consistency or maybe I am wrong.

    I do think that the inverted t method is good but the bullet is going to go out the top of the barrel at the time, could be slightly crooked or perfect right? I am asking because one time I just did the inverted t and set the scope to track perfect all the way through to 70 moa. Then realized that my gun rest was slightly higher on one side than the other. Shot perfect all the way to 1900 but man it was crooked.

    My question is what is anyone doing so the gun shoulders perfect and the crossairs is perfect, and we are not just saying we hold our gun canted?
     
  2. calib

    calib Well-Known Member

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    i am interested to hear what people say too.
    I try to level the action as best as i can, then the base, check the rings, get crosshairs good(scope), then i level the rifle set up and then the anti cant with a straight edge to make sure cross hairs are rite.
     

  3. HuntFarther

    HuntFarther Well-Known Member

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    And how do you feel things went. Do you feel the crossairs are still canted or that you hold a gun crooked? I feel that we have a barrel action sitting in a stock crooked and level everything to that and blame how we hold a gun. Just know this is the best place to find alot of different opinions, and cannot wait to hear what everyone's responses are. Thanks
     
  4. calib

    calib Well-Known Member

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    I think its how you are holding your rifle, when i do it a few times and get the same answer un less it is way of i go with it and when it works at long range 1000 yards or better it is probably good, you could always do the tall target and see it things are canted.
     
  5. HuntFarther

    HuntFarther Well-Known Member

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    Here is what I see still and don't know how or if can be fixed. If the barrel action is so call canted or rolled in a stock that would show unlevel by a levels standpoint until the reciever is flat or level. A level does not care if the butt plate is exactly verticle so it shoulder perfect. But the barrel action in a stock will be thrown up everytime to the same spot on the shoulder. So if the scope and action is out of whack with the stock but scope is trued to the bore. How do we straighten out which is out of wack. A tall target you level targer or use the basic inverted t and zero at the t and make sure it tracks. Does not care how you have to hold your gun that has a scope leveled to it at this point. Just level the corssairs and make sure it tracks. I may just be missing the hole point, just need explained what I am missing. I just feel that a scope is not leveled quite right if a throw up a gun and look at a level crossairs or inverted t and have to cant the gun from there.
     
  6. Browninglover1

    Browninglover1 Well-Known Member

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    The scope is leveled fine, the "system" is not leveled correctly. When I first started using levels I was surprised how far I canted some of my rifles when shooting offhand. It really bugged me that I didn't hold my rifles level, but it really doesn't matter to at the distances I shoot offhand.

    When I shoot off a bipod I am surprised how level or unlevel I am depending on the terrain I'm shooting in. When I shoot off level ground I naturally throw the rifle up almost perfect, but when I'm on a side hill I will get on target and then check my level and am sometimes way off. It drove me crazy at first, but now I just cant my rifle until it's level and shoot.

    I thought the level would help other people shoot my rifle to the same POI but it hasn't. How the person holds the gun, cheek weld, trigger control, etc. all determine POI and certain people just don't shoot the same POI as others.
     
  7. HuntFarther

    HuntFarther Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I am just drove crazy by doing the whole process of the inverted T. And I did make sure to rezero everytime after i moved the crossairs. To only go shooting rocks off my backpack and bipods, and find one time the rock was on a slope and instead of the crossairs being tipped up or into the hill were tipped down with the slope. Walked back to my truck and grabbed a 4 foot level and spray paint and sprayed a level line. Then went back and leveled again and just what I thought we are out of wack.
     
  8. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    Lets throw this into the pot and stir it shall we....

    Most 'levels', at least the ones you can buy from retailers that sell gun stuff (wheeler included) and not accurate in the first place so you are 'levelling' the firearm and/or the scope with an inherently inaccurate level.

    What you need is an accurate level and an solid repeatable surface and jig to mount the firearm in/on that you can accurately level it and the scope, in turn, if you really want both assemblies to be in the same plane.

    To that end, you need one or two machinist levels that actually level (via a precision etched vial) within 0.005 or better and a stable surface to jig the firearm on (not a bench top or your coffee table). They don't count and they aren't stable in the first place.

    I happen to have a Starrett pink granite checking plate in the shop that sits on a levelled stand (levelled with the previously mentioned machinist levels that I solidly jig my rifles to and then level the optic in relationship the the receiver.

    None of that is cheap but I happen to have those tools in the shop. You could get by with solidly securing the firearm in any holding fixture and levelling the receiver with a machinist level and then mounting the scope and levelling that using the upper turret cap (if flat). That should get you in the ballpark +- 10 thousands or so, or close enough you won't be able to discern any variation.

    Thats how I do it, no plumb bobs or any of that crap.

    I'm one of those shooters that always offhands a rifle at a cant, so I need that reference level on all my optics and it needs to be level and the reticle aligned, also why I only use bipods that adjust in 2 axis' I favor a Harris because the Y axis has adjustable dampening.

    At the very least, I'd be purchasing one or a pair of precision levels. You can't use a brick to achieve what you want and most levels are bricks.
     
  9. Alan Griffith

    Alan Griffith Well-Known Member

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  10. Skyking

    Skyking Official LRH Spponsor

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    Drop a weighted string. Level cross hairs to the line. Does not matter if the action is level to the scope. Bullet only cares about gravity.
     
  11. Alan Griffith

    Alan Griffith Well-Known Member

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    Yep! I forgot to add the string bob part.

    Alan
     
  12. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    There are a few ways to do this and this is the way I do it.

    - Hang a weighted line or plumb bob

    - Set up rifle on portable table with bipod and rear sand bags at closest distance the scope will focus on low power

    - Loosen scope rings so the scope is snug but loose enough to adjust (spin)

    - Remove bolt and eyeball and adjust center of bore on plumb line

    - Spin scope until the windage reticle is parallel to plumb line and recheck bore alignment to plum line

    - Adjust windage turret until the windage reticle is aligned with plum line. Recheck bore alignment with plumb line until bore and reticle are aligned with plumb line. The reticle is now aligned with the bore and and gravity.

    - Tighten down ring screws in alternating pattern while checking alignment of bore and reticle

    - Once the ring screws are tightened to spec with reticle and bore aligned to plumb line, adjust bubble level to "level" and tighten down.

    You are now ready to go. Plum bobs and gravity don't lie. It takes about 5-15 min.

    Good Shooting!
     
  13. Scrubbit

    Scrubbit Well-Known Member

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    I use the US Optics cant level. It attaches directly to the rail, so as long as the rail mounting holes are correctly machined, the cant level is automatically mated to the receiver and the whole mess is level. That doesn't help you level the scope in the rings, or the action in the stock, but at least you know when the action/rail is level.
     
  14. HuntFarther

    HuntFarther Well-Known Member

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    Thanks so much everyone I will exhaust more options. One will work. I will try and keep everyone in the loop on what I end up doing. Thanks