Hodgen powder issues

[Down Under Hunter]

Hey guys !

Last week a I had rare opportunity to use one of the best ballistic testing ranges in the state.

After all the talk about the powder burn rate I needed to satisfy myself and chrono the EDGE again.

Using a $6000 setup in an indoor range I fired a series of six shots of my most recent loadings.

Guess what I found.... Two things. 1/ Dont ever mix tins of powders together ! The speeds of the rounds had nearly 100 fps from top to bottom. Low 2800's to nearly 2900 ! It certainly was worth the test..... We pulled some bullets looking for answers and saw the 2 distinct colours in the charges showing two tins. Some guys thought this was ok... well it ain't !

We then loaded another 6 with a new batch of current H1000. 92 grns 3.775 OAL, Rem primer, 300 smk. AV speed 2870 with 8 fps variation. That was with old cases as well. Now with my old loading the 92 gave 2832 average , so this does support what you guys are seeing in the US. The powder is hotter for sure. I had no pressure signs and feeding was good but I aint going for any more. In windy conditions with bipod prone and rear bag I got a .5 group at 100 M with second and third shot in the same hole. I think it is close enough.

Bottom line ... If you are shooting this powder for long range performance and have not chronoed the load for a while...Do it ASAP !

DUH

Also going to run a test with the GEN 2 HAT Henson 265 projos in the next few weeks and will report how they go intially for accuracy and speeds.

 

[buffalorancher]

I had a big problem with H4350 in my 6-284. The gunsmith that built the rifle developed a load for the 107 SMK using H4350 and it shoots well but is a little fast for this bullet however it worked in an otherwise picky rifle. Finally ran out and the new lot needed something like 3 grains lighter. BIG jump in burn rate evidently. I don't have any of my load data here but the percentage decrease in powder charge was very significant.

 

[Shawn Carlock]

After more research and numorous phone calls from customers this seems to be a common problem with all recent Hodgen Extreme powders. I have now seen an increase in burn rate with the following powders that were manufactured in the last 8-10 months: H1000, H50 BMG, H4831SC, Retumbo & Varget. I can only speculate that this was caused by a slight change in a base component for these powders. The bottom line is that it should become standard practice with each new can of powder to load a few rounds and chrono them to make sure everything is running the same.

 

[bigbuck]

Thanks for the post. Now I don't feel so bad when I read were someone is loading 93.3 to 95 grains of retumbo in their RUM and 90.1 Grains makes my bolt sticky!! right now my load is 85.5 grains of retumbo using 210 bergers . next barrel job will be .338

 

[Down Under Hunter]

"READ THIS "


G'day Simon,
Below is a table of the Lot history on AR2217 propellants that was mentioned on the "Longrange Forum", information that maybe relevant to you, there is nothing that stands out to give problems, even at the high +52 C temp testing, as I thought that this maybe the cause at this time of the year in the US (their summer), as we compare every lot back to our reference there is not much change, so again I cannot say what has caused this problem in the US. If any lot that may have caused problems would be the AR2217 lot MEM4466 and we are now using this as our Reference which was a bit higher in velocity and chamber pressure, but not much. If any thing the lots MEM4508 & MEM4606 were on the slow side, which one would increase the charge weight. Our Spec's are that we should be +- 35 ft/s and not above +1500 Psi when compared to our Reference Lot.
Sorry I cannot be more helpful. Also apologies in the delay in responding to your request.

Regards and good shooting

Ken

Lot No. Ref. Lot Used Bulk Density (g/ltr) Moisture
(% H2O) Velocity
Press
@ +21º C Velocity
Press
@ -15ºC Velocity
Press
@ +52º C

MEM3811 956 0.97 V = -20 ft/s
P = +100 Psi V = +10 ft/s
P = +1700 Psi V = -60 ft/s
P = -2100 Psi
MEM4466 3811 951 0.74 V = +30 ft/s
P = +800 Psi V = +20 ft/s
P = -200 Psi V = +30 ft/s
P = +100 Psi
MEM4508 3811 947 0.83 V = -20 ft/s
P = -3000 Psi V = 0 ft/s
P = -2300 Psi V = +10 ft/s
P = -1900 Psi
MEM4606 3811 959 0.79 V = -10 ft/s
P = -2100 Psi V = 0 ft/s
P = -400 Psi V = -10 ft/s
P = -2300 Psi
MEM4642 4466 952 0.98 V = -30 ft/s
P = -600 Psi V = -30 ft/s
P = -900 Psi V = -30 ft/s
P = 1200 Psi














Ken Melgaard
Technical Officer
Land & Joint Systems
Thales Australia
Private Bag No 1, Mulwala, NSW 2647, Australia
Tel: +61 3 5742 2476 | Mob: +61 429 016 832 | Fax: +61 3 5742 2438
[email protected] | redirect...


"WEBSTERS WOOD STREET WAREHOUSE" <[email protected]>
11/07/2009 04:51 AM
To <[email protected]>
cc
Subject Question for ADI re 2217 (H1000) and 2218 (50BMG )







Thttp://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/hodgen-powder-issues-44114/

Thanks so much for your help.

There are alot of friends that would love you to take a look at the thread and give some feedback.

Hope it makes sense.

Cheers

Simon
DUH (LRHF)

 

[Lost creek]

I just got a new 8 lb. jug of H-1000 and after hearing that the new lots of hodgden powder were hotter i went to the range today to test my new powder. I loaded 92grs. the same as my older powder in my 338 edge and breaking clay pigeons at 970 yds. with both lots of powder. No difference at all. Maybe they are getting this issue resolved.

 

[Jumpalot]

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I've recently bought a new 8lb. jug of H1000 and started to rework my load. With the old powder, I was shooting 93grns. with very slightly flattened primers but no ejector marks. With the new jug, at 90grns. 7 out of 20 rounds show a noticeable ejector mark. The others have a slightly flattened primer. The ES was 40fps. How much do I need to back off the load to get rid of the ejector marks and bring the ES down. Rifle is grouping 1/2 MOA at 500 yds. at 90 grns.

Thanks for your help.

 

[TAP]

I had to back off 2 grains in mine.

 

[Jumpalot]

So I'm still trying to get my load tweaked with this new lot powder. I thought I was going to be ok at 89.5 grains but I went out on Sat. and temp was 90*. Major extractor marks and flattened primers. So I've went from being able to load 93 grns of the old lot at 2830 fps and slightly flattened primers and 8 fps ES to 89.5 grns of the new lot at 2783 fps and flattened primers and bad ejector marks and 20 fps ES. I called Hodgdon and explained what I'm experiencing. They want me to load 15 rounds and send it to them to test against their "control" powder. The problem is they don't have a 338 Edge barrel and they would have to dump my loads and take the powder and reload it in their control round which is a 300 Win. Mag. Somehow I don't see what that's going to to find. I'm major frustrated as I bought an 8lb. jug so I didn't have to keep re-working my load. But less powder, less velocity and more pressure isn't a good thing.
Any suggestions??

 

[liltank]

So I'm still trying to get my load tweaked with this new lot powder. I thought I was going to be ok at 89.5 grains but I went out on Sat. and temp was 90*. Major extractor marks and flattened primers. So I've went from being able to load 93 grns of the old lot at 2830 fps and slightly flattened primers and 8 fps ES to 89.5 grns of the new lot at 2783 fps and flattened primers and bad ejector marks and 20 fps ES. I called Hodgdon and explained what I'm experiencing. They want me to load 15 rounds and send it to them to test against their "control" powder. The problem is they don't have a 338 Edge barrel and they would have to dump my loads and take the powder and reload it in their control round which is a 300 Win. Mag. Somehow I don't see what that's going to to find. I'm major frustrated as I bought an 8lb. jug so I didn't have to keep re-working my load. But less powder, less velocity and more pressure isn't a good thing.
Any suggestions??

What I see in them wanting your loads for is merely the powder it self. They will go off of a known load with known pressures for a specific bullet from a control. Then they will load your powder in with the same bullet/ load/ combo, and look for an increased pressure spike. I'm guessing hear, but not sure the caliber is going to matter with known info. They are more interested in how the powder is reacting to known specifications.

Tank

 

[coyotezapper]

Thanks for the reminder. I see this regularly in a wide variety of powders. H and other wise. This is why I make the practice of dropping a few grains after purchasing a new lot of powder and running a couple "test" loads over the chrony.

Michael,
This is the best advice with this subject!!