Hitting high @ 1351

Discussion in 'Extreme Long Range Hunting & Shooting (ELR)' started by Alan Griffith, Jul 21, 2013.

  1. Alan Griffith

    Alan Griffith Well-Known Member

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    Morning fellas,

    The other day, I was helping a friend with his new 6.5x47 rifle I helped him build and developed the load myself. This rifle will shoot .3 moa with the 130 VLD running 2873 fps. Very low ES; like 15 fps. Back on the 4th of July, I was testing the rifle/load out at 1089 yds on a rock approximately shoe box sized, up on a cliff. Zero wind and about 70 def F. I kept hitting this rock over and over and over. Now, two days back, I had my friend out, I was shooting at the same rock and still kept hitting it. We decided to stretch it a bit further to a suit case size rock (I think. Not climbing the cliff to measure it) sitting at 1341 yds.

    Conditions:

    11.9 up angle
    24.8 baro
    68 deg F
    Humidity: I always run 30% here in Utah unless it's raining.
    zero side wind
    Sight ht of 1.9" with NF 5.5-22 sitting on top of the Stiller action.

    Both Gunwerks G7 and Shooter give me 41.25 moa. I'm using the G7 BC of .282. Yet, I'm hitting above the rock, approx 1 full moa high.

    I get home, figure I need to try and use the Coriolis Effect feature of Shooter.

    Lat 40.10.38.98
    Azmuth of about 38 deg

    Coriolis changes it to 41.9 which is in the wrong direction. I needed to come down to about 40.25 to hit the rock. I was watching for updrafts and once in a while catch a spider web or cotton wood, barely up drafting. No way to measure that nor to enter that in to Shooter! Or is there?

    Thanks for any input.

    Alan
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2013
  2. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    Your problem is common. And one I am working on diligently.

    1: Lets start with a basic problem that has caused many grief. Actual scope tracking. Your scope may actually be moving your point of impact, lets say, 1.05 moa instead of 1.0 moa. This will appear to be a larger issue as distance increases. This is adjustable in shooter and Bryans AB program. Take your log book data and play with it to see if you can get on at several distances by adjusting this.

    2: Angle of target face and angle bullet is descending. What looks like 1 moa or even measures 1 moa through a reticle might not be when the angles are added to the equation. Retest at both distances using a 90* target surface like a steel target or a rock wall. To get accurate drop data.

    3: Up draft. Very common when we shoot long. We are usually shooting up. I find thermal and other winds are commonly present with up hill slopes. Do this test or use it to help with a first round dial up. To the best of your ability guess the wind going up where the target is. Look at the wind angle and how it will be contacting the angle of the descending incoming bullet. Many times this is a full value effect.
    Enter the wind speed in your program as a full value cross wind and get the drift it will give in moa. Then use that number as to what you need to subtract from your dial up. Notice how little of an updraft it will take to lift you 1 or 2 moa.

    Hope this helps.

    Jeff
     

  3. Alan Griffith

    Alan Griffith Well-Known Member

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    Jeff,

    Wow! Now that's a few great answers. Now, all I have to do start going through them.

    Thank you VERY much!

    1. Could a NF NXS really be off? Even a tiny sketch?

    2. The rock I was shooting was sitting on a tiny ledge; cliff face, so doubt this will be an issue.

    3. At a distance of 1341 yds, Shooter says a 1 or 2 mph full value wind would move me .5 to 1.3 moa. So, if I apply that value from below, the slightly up ward moving cottonwoods and/or spider webs are a great tell tale sign that that is likely the issue. As I think about it, the 1089 yd hits were flying over pretty much empty space until the last hundred yards yet the 1341 yd misses were flying more along the canyon wall for maybe 400-500 yds of up ward angling slopes and cliffs.

    Alan
     
  4. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    1: you bet!! We do not live in a perfect world. These differences in tracking may be so slight you cant detect them at 100 yards. Just for an example, a correction of 1.0 (1.047") compared to 1.04 (1.088") at100 yards is a difference of .041" that is 41 thousands of an inch. Hard to detect at 100 yards no mater what method used. But at 1300 yards the difference is .545 moa.

    2: as long as you had a vertical target surface for both shots you are probably safe to use the data. But there is no better way to get accurate data than a vertical steel plate or paper target you can walk up to with a tape measure.

    3: Remember to switch off the spin drift when you are using windage drift to give a correction for an up lift.

    Now you see how crazy I am with this ELR stuff...:rolleyes::D

    Jeff
     
  5. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    PS: start employing the coriolis effects. They are real. And watch these digital compasses like in phone apps. They can lie. I am going to an old quality manual compass.

    Jeff
     
  6. Alan Griffith

    Alan Griffith Well-Known Member

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    Coriolis effect! Got it!

    Compass app, yep, POS! Got it!

    Bring Silva Ranger compass! Got it!

    I have the darnedest time entering a proper Latitude in Shooter. What's the proper method to separate the numbers? If I use all periods (.), Shooter stops and shuts down.

    Alan
     
  7. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    it is asking for an answer in degrees. So for here where I live I simply enter 46
     
  8. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    Oh crap! Alan, do I remember reading where you are now using a G7 BR2 for an RF now? If so be careful of that large beam my friend. A mis range of even a few yards will screw you up big time for ELR. They are very nice and handy, but I have seen them fail at distances we are talking easily. Just a word of caution here. I can see a Vectronix in your future.:)

    Jeff
     
  9. Alan Griffith

    Alan Griffith Well-Known Member

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    So, what you're saying is one doesn't have to be super accurate and dial in

    40.10.37.28 ??

    Which to means translates as 40 deg, 10 min, 37.28 seconds North.

    And all I have to do is dial in the 40 to Shooter?

    Alan
     
  10. Alan Griffith

    Alan Griffith Well-Known Member

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    No! No! No! I love my G7. Plus, since I'm reading it against a rock wall/cliff, I know my ranges are very accurate. No V for me!!!!:D

    I see Townsend is 46 North. And Mapleton, Utah is 40 N.

    Alan
     
  11. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that is what I do, and have always done. But I guess we could compare the differences of an entry of 40 and 41 to see what the solution difference is.

    Jeff
     
  12. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    Well if all you are going to hunt are mountain goats on rock ledges you are set!! Never say never, trust me the bite hurts. :)

    Jeff
     
  13. Alan Griffith

    Alan Griffith Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but the "near" and "far' feature of my G7 has been coming in really handy to dilute out foreground or background reflective targets. I tested it against my, now sold, Leica 1600-B and they matched up perfectly.

    Alan
     
  14. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    Ok, cool.

    Just for my curiosity. Then why are you still using the Shooter program?