High Velocity Of High BC
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Tyler Kemp
Well-Known Member
Well, what are we considering "high" velocity? How about 58 grain V-Max @ 4500 fps vs. 105 grain Amax @ 3000 fps, with 10 mph wind. Big difference, about to enter into eskimo ballistics:
58 grainer @ 500 yards= 4.5 MOA drop, 4.5 MOA windage
58 grainer @ 500 yards= 23 MOA drop, 13 MOA windage
105 grainer@ 500 yards=8.6 MOA drop, 3.2 MOA windage
105 grainer@ 500 yards=28.1 MOA drop, 7.9 MOA windage
In conclusion, even with the most extreme cases high BC wins again.
58 grainer @ 500 yards= 4.5 MOA drop, 4.5 MOA windage
58 grainer @ 500 yards= 23 MOA drop, 13 MOA windage
105 grainer@ 500 yards=8.6 MOA drop, 3.2 MOA windage
105 grainer@ 500 yards=28.1 MOA drop, 7.9 MOA windage
In conclusion, even with the most extreme cases high BC wins again.
Kevin Cram
Well-Known Member
Why can't I have a fast bullet with with a high B/C? .338-408 Cheytec anyone?
Kevin Cram
Well-Known Member
I don't know anyone who has had a 338-408 long enough to tell how long the barrel life is. I'm on the verge of putting one together, what do you supose the life is?
royinidaho
Well-Known Member
I'm with lerch. There ain't nothin' wrong with Maximum Velocity and Highest Possible BC.
Watch Shawn's video and note the difference in flight time between the Edge and AM.
Watch Shawn's video and note the difference in flight time between the Edge and AM.
Nobody will side agianst high BC & high velocity IMHO
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
Both,
but by high velocity I am referring to 3300-3500 fps, not 4000-4100 fps.
And for high BC I am referring to .65 to .9.
Not many will get both of these but I know a few that will!!!
but by high velocity I am referring to 3300-3500 fps, not 4000-4100 fps.
And for high BC I am referring to .65 to .9.
Not many will get both of these but I know a few that will!!!
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
When you consider a new barrel and fitting costs pretty close to the same as 1000 of the newer high BC bullets in 338 and 375, I think a new barrel is a relatively desposable aspect of a long range rifle.
I also get a kick out of some saying that barrel life is such a significant detail for a long range big game rifle. In honest its really not. If you have a smaller longer barrel life practice rifle and a 338-408 class rifle as well, Practice all year with the smaller rifle, when you want the performance you use the big one.
To be honest, I know very few hunters, even long range hunters that put an honest 100 rounds through their rifle a year. Now certainly there are those that do and many on here do I know that but there are ways to make a high intensity, large capacity magnum function perfectly well for at least 10 seasons of big game hunting.
How many of use currently use the same rifle for over 10 years in this day and age?
I have shot three 338 AM barrels to the point they would not shoot acceptably well for big game hunting at ranges past 1/2 mile. The first was my original test barrel, pulled the barrel with roughly 580 rounds down the bore with an additional +100 rounds of corn meal fireforming loads.
This was my test barrel, I tested it hard and was not overly kind to this barrel as I wanted to get test data relatively quickly and letting the barrel cool was not a priority with this barrel.
This was a Lilja barrel as well which tend to run on the softer side of custom barrels just like any button pulled barrel. As such, they erode on average a bit faster then the harder cut rifled barrels.
The other two barrels, one a Lilja, the other a Krieger both had +900 rounds down the barrels and were still shooting easily under moa at 1000 yards but they were beginning to foul more quickly. These barrels were cared for much better then my first test barrel, they were also not shot with any corn meal fireforming loads and never used to form brass with live fire loads either as I now form all my cases with a forming barrel.
I did however have to chase the lands quite a bit and I also had to live with some drop in velocity potential but even in the end they were still WAY over the next closest conventional 338 magnum in velocity.
As more, higher BC bullets come into play in the 375 caliber family, the arguement with barrel life will change dramatically. Right now the 350 gr SMK is listed with a BC of .780. Basically the same as the 338 300 gr SMK. In the Allen Magnums, both the 338 and 375 will drive these bullets to roughly 3300 fps with comfortable loads. So in the end, the 375 and 338 will be ballistic twins out to any range. THe 375 just carries a larger kenetic energy payload and offers a larger frontal area.
I have not been able to confirm this is the exact BC yet but I can say its very close.
So now you have the same ballistic performance and an extreme payload but barrel life is significantly increased. I have not burnt up a 375 barrel yet but I would be surpised if it did not come very close to matching the barrel life of the 338 Lapua class chamberings which include the 338 RUM, 338 Edge, 338 Lapua, 338 Lapua Impr, 338 AX and 338-378 Wby.
I know of at least three bullet makers tooling up to make higher BC bullets for the 375 caliber which should hopefully be online for sale this summer.
Is the 338-408 class rifle hard on barrels, yep, will any conventional chambering come close to it ballistically, nope. There are sacrifices and now we are working on new calibers and bullets that will get all of us that same ballistic performance, more energy and with longer barrel life, exciting times!!!
I also get a kick out of some saying that barrel life is such a significant detail for a long range big game rifle. In honest its really not. If you have a smaller longer barrel life practice rifle and a 338-408 class rifle as well, Practice all year with the smaller rifle, when you want the performance you use the big one.
To be honest, I know very few hunters, even long range hunters that put an honest 100 rounds through their rifle a year. Now certainly there are those that do and many on here do I know that but there are ways to make a high intensity, large capacity magnum function perfectly well for at least 10 seasons of big game hunting.
How many of use currently use the same rifle for over 10 years in this day and age?
I have shot three 338 AM barrels to the point they would not shoot acceptably well for big game hunting at ranges past 1/2 mile. The first was my original test barrel, pulled the barrel with roughly 580 rounds down the bore with an additional +100 rounds of corn meal fireforming loads.
This was my test barrel, I tested it hard and was not overly kind to this barrel as I wanted to get test data relatively quickly and letting the barrel cool was not a priority with this barrel.
This was a Lilja barrel as well which tend to run on the softer side of custom barrels just like any button pulled barrel. As such, they erode on average a bit faster then the harder cut rifled barrels.
The other two barrels, one a Lilja, the other a Krieger both had +900 rounds down the barrels and were still shooting easily under moa at 1000 yards but they were beginning to foul more quickly. These barrels were cared for much better then my first test barrel, they were also not shot with any corn meal fireforming loads and never used to form brass with live fire loads either as I now form all my cases with a forming barrel.
I did however have to chase the lands quite a bit and I also had to live with some drop in velocity potential but even in the end they were still WAY over the next closest conventional 338 magnum in velocity.
As more, higher BC bullets come into play in the 375 caliber family, the arguement with barrel life will change dramatically. Right now the 350 gr SMK is listed with a BC of .780. Basically the same as the 338 300 gr SMK. In the Allen Magnums, both the 338 and 375 will drive these bullets to roughly 3300 fps with comfortable loads. So in the end, the 375 and 338 will be ballistic twins out to any range. THe 375 just carries a larger kenetic energy payload and offers a larger frontal area.
I have not been able to confirm this is the exact BC yet but I can say its very close.
So now you have the same ballistic performance and an extreme payload but barrel life is significantly increased. I have not burnt up a 375 barrel yet but I would be surpised if it did not come very close to matching the barrel life of the 338 Lapua class chamberings which include the 338 RUM, 338 Edge, 338 Lapua, 338 Lapua Impr, 338 AX and 338-378 Wby.
I know of at least three bullet makers tooling up to make higher BC bullets for the 375 caliber which should hopefully be online for sale this summer.
Is the 338-408 class rifle hard on barrels, yep, will any conventional chambering come close to it ballistically, nope. There are sacrifices and now we are working on new calibers and bullets that will get all of us that same ballistic performance, more energy and with longer barrel life, exciting times!!!
AJ Peacock
Well-Known Member
I couldn't find my choice (moderate 3300fps with a moderate .8 bc) so I chose the high bc option ;-)
Absolutely, I use $1/shot as a barrel cost for my 338AM.
Thats why I have a 300WSM on the same stock/scope as my 338AM and have a barrel at Shawn's (338-300RUM) getting a brake installed. Then I'll essentially have 2 practice barrels for the Savage 12.
I'd guess barrel cost for my practice rifle somewhere between $.25/shot and $0.40/shot. I expect to shoot an honest 1000 rds/year from the practice rifle and less than 50 from the 338AM. (probably closer to 25). At that rate, Kirby's grandkids can re-barrel it for my grandkids.
AJ
Absolutely, I use $1/shot as a barrel cost for my 338AM.
Thats why I have a 300WSM on the same stock/scope as my 338AM and have a barrel at Shawn's (338-300RUM) getting a brake installed. Then I'll essentially have 2 practice barrels for the Savage 12.
I'd guess barrel cost for my practice rifle somewhere between $.25/shot and $0.40/shot. I expect to shoot an honest 1000 rds/year from the practice rifle and less than 50 from the 338AM. (probably closer to 25). At that rate, Kirby's grandkids can re-barrel it for my grandkids.
AJ
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Kevin Thomas
Well-Known Member
In the immortal words of German Salazar, "velocity fades, but BC is forever."
MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
In the words of MontanaRifleman, "BC is nothing without velocity".
