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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Long Range Scopes and Other Optics
high value low cost optics, scopes binoculars, spotters ect.
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<blockquote data-quote="Scot E" data-source="post: 600944" data-attributes="member: 10832"><p>Savageman,</p><p></p><p>It has been a few weeks since I read through all the posts so maybe I am forgetting some info but I think you are missing some important points that are critical to choosing a scope. Don't get me wrong I applaud the basic concept of your post and in some ways go through a similar process as you in determining which scope to buy. I often bypass much of the fluff to get exactly what I need, trying to save as much money along the way. </p><p></p><p>Having said that, if i recall correctly you are using a semi auto 22 cal to shoot at the minimum of what I would call LR shooting, ie about 600 yards. Also, it doesn't sound like you dial your turrets for varying distances but instead use hold over and your reticle for various holds. To be sure there are few scopes that won't be able to handle the abuse of that setup. It really is about as soft of a shooter as you can get and once you have the scope set you hardly touch it. </p><p></p><p>But for most long range guys this IS NOT how they use their LR rigs. They are using larger cartridges, sometimes much larger magnums, often times with brakes which makes durability of a scope so much more critical compared to the setup you are using. Also most guys run their turrets up and down for every shot they take so the demand for an accurate and repeatable and durable turret assembly is of utmost importance. These differences are going to drastically change the specs a shooter MUST have in a scope. And it is my opinion that most guys are not going to find the list of specs and performance requirements they need and rely on to perform flawlessly during their 1 or 2 hunting trips per year in a $100 scope. </p><p></p><p>I have tested a lot of scopes and there are certain things you ARE giving up when you go low cost. Turret return to zero is one of those. Accurate turret adjustment is another. Most low end scopes don't adjust .25 MOA per click as they are listed. So if a guy is using ballistic software then you are going to have to be sure and do some turret testing to find out how your turret does adjust so you can compensate in your ballistic program. Also, turret repeatability is another potential big issue. Over time low end turrets have a tendency to change their adjustment amount which makes for big headaches for LR shooters. </p><p></p><p>Also, changing turret adjustments on cheaper scopes often times makes big differences in optical quality. You are sacrificing optical quality already by choosing less expensive scopes so one needs to be sure that the additional change isn't going to be too much of a problem. Another issue I see with inexpensive SFP scopes is that the zero will change as you change the power mag up or down. Not all do this but enough to be a concern. And the number of inexpensive scopes that do it compared to the mid range scopes is pretty high. </p><p></p><p>I say all of this just to reiterate that LR hunting or shooting is a highly precise sport requiring highly precise equipment to perform to the standard that most guys will have in this sport. I think you will find a ton of guys that want the best bang for their buck but not many of those are going to be willing to put aside accurate and repeatable adjustments along with durability that will hold up on magnum cartridges. </p><p></p><p>In my experience there are very few under $200 scopes that will fit the bill. I really am not trying to dump and your parade here and do applaud the general concept you are promoting of educating guys that they don't have to spend primo dollars to get into this sport. But I also don't want to lead a new shooter in a direction that is going to introduce a ton of headaches and frustration and likely require a future upgrade to an acceptable scope in the near future. And it is my opinion that we are doing just that by promoting $100 or less scopes for the precision that LR hunting requires. By all means you don't have to go premium but in my opinion and experience going $200 and less is asking for a lot of frustration and problem over time. There have been many good mid priced scopes mentioned here that will perform well for a long time. That would be my suggestion to ensure acceptable performance while saving as much cash as possible. And buying used is another great way to get a lot of scope for the money. </p><p></p><p>My 2 cents</p><p></p><p></p><p>Scot E.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scot E, post: 600944, member: 10832"] Savageman, It has been a few weeks since I read through all the posts so maybe I am forgetting some info but I think you are missing some important points that are critical to choosing a scope. Don't get me wrong I applaud the basic concept of your post and in some ways go through a similar process as you in determining which scope to buy. I often bypass much of the fluff to get exactly what I need, trying to save as much money along the way. Having said that, if i recall correctly you are using a semi auto 22 cal to shoot at the minimum of what I would call LR shooting, ie about 600 yards. Also, it doesn't sound like you dial your turrets for varying distances but instead use hold over and your reticle for various holds. To be sure there are few scopes that won't be able to handle the abuse of that setup. It really is about as soft of a shooter as you can get and once you have the scope set you hardly touch it. But for most long range guys this IS NOT how they use their LR rigs. They are using larger cartridges, sometimes much larger magnums, often times with brakes which makes durability of a scope so much more critical compared to the setup you are using. Also most guys run their turrets up and down for every shot they take so the demand for an accurate and repeatable and durable turret assembly is of utmost importance. These differences are going to drastically change the specs a shooter MUST have in a scope. And it is my opinion that most guys are not going to find the list of specs and performance requirements they need and rely on to perform flawlessly during their 1 or 2 hunting trips per year in a $100 scope. I have tested a lot of scopes and there are certain things you ARE giving up when you go low cost. Turret return to zero is one of those. Accurate turret adjustment is another. Most low end scopes don't adjust .25 MOA per click as they are listed. So if a guy is using ballistic software then you are going to have to be sure and do some turret testing to find out how your turret does adjust so you can compensate in your ballistic program. Also, turret repeatability is another potential big issue. Over time low end turrets have a tendency to change their adjustment amount which makes for big headaches for LR shooters. Also, changing turret adjustments on cheaper scopes often times makes big differences in optical quality. You are sacrificing optical quality already by choosing less expensive scopes so one needs to be sure that the additional change isn't going to be too much of a problem. Another issue I see with inexpensive SFP scopes is that the zero will change as you change the power mag up or down. Not all do this but enough to be a concern. And the number of inexpensive scopes that do it compared to the mid range scopes is pretty high. I say all of this just to reiterate that LR hunting or shooting is a highly precise sport requiring highly precise equipment to perform to the standard that most guys will have in this sport. I think you will find a ton of guys that want the best bang for their buck but not many of those are going to be willing to put aside accurate and repeatable adjustments along with durability that will hold up on magnum cartridges. In my experience there are very few under $200 scopes that will fit the bill. I really am not trying to dump and your parade here and do applaud the general concept you are promoting of educating guys that they don't have to spend primo dollars to get into this sport. But I also don't want to lead a new shooter in a direction that is going to introduce a ton of headaches and frustration and likely require a future upgrade to an acceptable scope in the near future. And it is my opinion that we are doing just that by promoting $100 or less scopes for the precision that LR hunting requires. By all means you don't have to go premium but in my opinion and experience going $200 and less is asking for a lot of frustration and problem over time. There have been many good mid priced scopes mentioned here that will perform well for a long time. That would be my suggestion to ensure acceptable performance while saving as much cash as possible. And buying used is another great way to get a lot of scope for the money. My 2 cents Scot E. [/QUOTE]
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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
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high value low cost optics, scopes binoculars, spotters ect.
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