Hey, DC ?

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by Guest, Feb 24, 2003.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hi,
    It's just me being a pain, again.
    I just read thru the entire 10 page post on the Tommy. A bunch of good stuff, BUT......
    Based on your (and your friends) experience, could you give a quick rundown on what you feel is the approximate correct barrel lengths for a couple of different .30 cal. cases?
    Specifically, I was wondering about a standard 300 RUM, a standard 300 Win mag, and a 30-338 Win mag.
    I think it's time for me to step up to a new barrel, and I don't know which way I'm going yet. Your answer MAY make a difference.

    Thanks for your time.
    C'ya. John.
     
  2. Darryl Cassel

    Darryl Cassel Well-Known Member

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    Hello John

    I like longer barrels and found out long ago the advantages of the added velocity that they give.

    Depending on the ranges you intend to reach out to is what length I would go with for the calibers you mentioned.
    I would never go less then 30" on anything I shoot unless it was a factory rifle and i had no other choice.

    I have carry guns in the 7/300 Weatherby and 7mm Mag that weigh 11# that have 30" barrels and the guns that I reach out with that are mainly stationary, have 34" to 37" barrels.
    I have a 44" barrel standing by that I intend to make into a 300 RUM or Tomahawk this year. The velocity I should get from that one may be something to write home about.

    It all depends on the range you want to reach out to, but none of my custom guns have less then 30" barrels.

    Here is a list of some of them. You may be able to fit in your desire of a caliber from the ones I have.
    6/06 IMP----30"
    25Gibbs-----32"
    308 Win-----30"
    7mm mag carry gun 30"
    6.5/300 Weatherby----30"
    7/300 Weatherby Carry gun 30"
    (5) 300 Weatherby LR hunting or 1000 yd competition guns for my wife and I-- 30"
    6.5/284---30"
    6/284----30"
    30 Gibbs-----30"
    30 Goodling----30"
    30/378----34"
    300 Tomahawk --- 34"
    338/416 Rigby----37"

    As you can see, most are at least 30" but I prefer 34 to 37" barrels on my LR hunting guns in large 30 and 338 cal. configurations.

    I would chose the 300 RUM with at least a 34" barrel out of the ones you mentioned for a longrange hunting cartridge.
    If your wanting a 30 cal rifle for 1000 yard match shooting, the 300 Win mag or 300 Weathetby with at least a 30" barrel would be my choice.

    Later
     

  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    DC,
    Thanks.
    Not only for the quick reply, (do you ever sleep?) but also for the ROUGH idea about how long to make it.
    As I understand what you said, starting at 30 inches, add length based on case capacity. IE, 30-338 @ 30", 300 Win mag @ 32-34", and 300RUM @ 34-38". Is that somewhere in the ballpark?
    Roughly, for every 5 to 10 grains of case capacity,add a couple of inches.
    How long do they get before you block it?

    Thanks, again.
    C'ya. John.
     
  4. Darryl Cassel

    Darryl Cassel Well-Known Member

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    John

    The 30/338 or the 300 Win mag or the 300 RUM could all be 30" depending on what you want to do with any of these cartridges.

    The 300 Win mag has more powder capacity then the 30/338 so it will give more velocity in the same length barrel. The 300 RUM has more powder capacity then the 300 Win mag and will give more velocity in the same length barrel if all are using the same bullet weight.

    If you really want to increase the effectivness of the 300 RUM especially with 240 Gr Sierra MK bullets, I would go with a 34" to 36" barrel.

    Usually blocks or sleeves are used when the barrel length goes over 32" or 34" depending on the diameter. If you have a tapored barrel of .950" (at the muzzle) or less, you may not need a block.

    Most 1000 yd light Match guns with barrels of 30" don't have blocks. Some do but, not most.

    Theres no set length of barrel for any particular cartridge. It's shooter preferance and how far he wants to reach out and touch something. If you want to send large high BC bullets in large overbore cases out to extreme range, get a longgggggg "Darryl Barrel."

    During these winter evenings and mornings, I usually hit the forums to see what has been asked during the day or night. I do sleep, honest.

    Good luck to you with your decision.
     
  5. *WyoWhisper*

    *WyoWhisper* Guest

    john,

    I order me a custome 300 RUM I opted for the 27" barrel.. but with reason.
    1. I added a break which will put me at 28+"
    2. Thats about all you can fit in a scabbard unless you go custom and them your talking $500+
    3. Just had a good conversation with my gun smith about the 27" barrel. He has doen some testing with a few of the 300 RUMs he built.. He thinks I should be able to get 3000 fps from the 27" with the 200 or 220's

    Just food for thought... I am in no way disputing what DC said.. just giving you ideas of what I had done..

    I plan to hunt deer to 1200 yards with this rifle.

    DC... curious to know the performance of the 30" barrel and the 308.....

    jeesh got enough toys [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  6. Darryl Cassel

    Darryl Cassel Well-Known Member

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    Ric

    That's not all the toys, plus I have a VERY good friend who is a gunsmith. I didn't mention I have been shooting since I was 12 yrs old and am now 62.
    I have collected many rifles in those years and have shot many others that I no longer own.

    Even my 22/284 that I didn't mention, has a 30" barrel.

    I was trying to get the point across that there are many benifits to the additional barrel length beside additional velocity.
    One of them is, you can set the barrel back when/if you run excessive rounds through the rifle and still give additional life to that same barrel. Additional velocity will give additional energy downrange too.

    As per the length of a barrel with a muzzle brake attached. A muzzle brake adds NO benificial length to the bullet traveling down a barrel. As a matter of fact, when the bullet goes through a muzzle brake there must be clearance all around the bullet to make the brake work correctly. Some people add the brake as extra barrel length for bullet velocity, but that's not true. A 27" barrel is a 27" barrel even if a brake attached to it is 12" longer. [​IMG]

    As mentioned, there are times when the rifle must be shorter for carry purposes and this is understandable in your case with the horse scabbard.

    The added velocity in my style of hunting warrents longer barrels because of the range we ususlly are shooting.
    Like in other things, I think "longer" is "better." [​IMG] and have seen the velocity increase at extended range in just about every cartridge that I have shot over the years.

    If I can run a "240 Gr" bullet in a 34" barrel at 3235 FPS and a 220 gr at 3300FPS in the 300 RUM Imp (Tomahawk) and you are running a "220 gr" at 3000 FPS, I will take the additional velocity and remaining downrange energy, everytime. [​IMG]
    3025 to 3040 FPS is what I run the 220 gr in my match guns at Williamsport from my 300 Weatherbys with 30" barrels.
    When LR Hunting, I want more velocity (to a degree)to fight the winds in the high ridges we hunt from. I still want to retain the accuracy also.

    A person chambering a new barrel must decide;

    1. What range he will be reaching out to when hunting.

    2. Is the barrel going to be used for hunting or match shooting or both.

    3. What caliber will be used with that barrel.

    4. What length barrel can be used effectively when/if short range shooting with the same rifle, if one plans on doing that.
    If I go short range hunting here in PA, I usually just grab my 280 Remington Mountain rifle and take a walk.

    When walking in Colorado, I take the 7/300 Weatherby with the 30" barrel in case I catch one across a canyon.

    When a person figures that for every 100 FPS of additional velocity the longer barrel will give, means a flatter shooting rifle by 12" to 20" (at least) at 1000 yards plus the added velocity also carries with it more retained energy [​IMG].

    Just thought I would point out the benifits of the longer barrels that I have found over the last 50 years.
    Damn, I'm getting old [​IMG]

    Hope we didn't confuse the original poster there in Wyoming.

    Later
    [​IMG]

    Ric---As an add on here, the 308 Win I have is the Shilen DGA action and 30" Shilen barrel. I have not shot the rifle in about 4 yrs now and the last time I did was at Williamsport using the 175 Gr MK.
    The 30" barrel gave me another 105 to 135 FPS over the other 308s I have owned over the years that had 24 and 26" barrels.
    My powder of choice was 4064.

    [ 02-25-2003: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]
     
  7. demarpaint

    demarpaint Well-Known Member

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    Hi DC

    I see you have a 6.5-06 Improved, I am toying around with having one built for long range target shooting and some varmint shooting. I would like to use a Remington 700 action, I have one in blue but would prefer Stainless. I have access to shoot up to 1000 yards Upstate NY on private property. Do you have any comments or suggestions for that round (barrel length etc)? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


    Thanks for your time,

    Frank D
     
  8. demarpaint

    demarpaint Well-Known Member

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    Hi DC,

    I read the post wrong, I have been doing a lot of that lately. 6/06 Improved was what you wrote. If you have any comments on the 6.5-06 Improved, they would be appreciated.

    Thanks Again
    Frank D [​IMG]
     
  9. *WyoWhisper*

    *WyoWhisper* Guest

    DC,

    I guess I sounded like a novice when I re-read my post...

    I realize the break adds nothing to the barrel lentgh as far as volocity goes.. my point was I needed to keep everything around 28" I would love to have the 30" but it would just be a headache when on horseback..

    I am now trying to decide on the best setup for detatchable rings... tough to get the BIG scopes in littel scabbards.. ANY THOUGHTS???

    hey you never told me what velocities you get with the .308 and the 30" barrel?? very curious... I am considering rebarreling my .308 after this summer .. mostly likely the barrel will be due about then... especially after I spend some time on the 10,000 acre lease in Casper... [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  10. Darryl Cassel

    Darryl Cassel Well-Known Member

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    Frank and Ric

    Frank I have had and still do have 6.5 Gibbs which is an improved 6.5/06 with a 35 degree shoulder instead of the 40 Degree that Ackley produced, and holds up to 9 more grains of powder over the standard 6.5/06. It will stay right with a 264 Mag when using bullets up to 142 Gr MKs in a 30" barrel and having an 8 twist. You will be amazed at that cartridge and what it will do. You can make the cases from 270 Norma.

    Ray Romain puts the 6.5 Gibbs on the 270 Length case, which is .050" longer in the neck then the standard 30/06. Gives the case a longer neck and he throats it longer to set the bullet out further. Lots of powder room. For a LR hunting rifle to 1000 yards or so, it is a dandy.

    It is a great cartridge and Old Ricky Gibbs was way ahead of his time.


    Ric---I added to my previous long post concerning the 308 length and velocity gain. [​IMG]

    Later

    [ 02-25-2003: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]
     
  11. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    Demarpaint

    I have a Tooley built 6.5/06 Ack Imp 1000 yd .290 neck in a light gun 16.4lbs built to PA specs. It shoots 140-142 at 3000-3050 fps very accurately. The barrel is only 28" but, that is not a handicap at the BR game. Originally started with RL22 but recently switched to MRP.

    It requires fireforming either Lapua 270 or 30'06 brass necked down using the COW method before neck turning. That is a pain at times and some people switched to the 6.5-284 (both reg and improved versions) which requires no fireforming now that the 284 has got very good brass now. The 6.5/06AI will have about 100-150 fps over the standard 6.5-284.

    Currently using JLK 140 (B) model bullets (he has an A & B model 140 gr bullet). However, I think the Clinch River 147 really offers some potential especially in the BR and hunting modes. Sierra 142s are all over the chart on weight and bearing surface length and really require a lot of sorting to get shootable bullets.

    If you go to the 6.5-284 impr you can get 3000 fps if you use a 30" barrel, but normally will require fluting to make weight at the 16.5 lb mark and that is with 1" scope with sleeved 700 action, Tooley MBR stock.

    Good luck.

    BH
     
  12. Darryl Cassel

    Darryl Cassel Well-Known Member

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    Frank

    I didn't know if you were talking about a LR hunting rifle or for shooting at 1000 yard matches.

    If going to 1000 yd matches, I think that the 6.5/284 is the way to go. As mentioned, you really don't have to do the fireforming that the Gibbs or Ackleys require. Velocity will not be what you can obtain from the Gibbs or Ackley 6.5/06 IMP cartridges though. That's what makes the Improved versions a better hunting round.

    For additional velocity and hunting with a 6.5 Bore (other then the 6.5/300 Weathetby), I like the 6.5 Gibbs ALOT.

    Even the standard 6.5/06 is a "great" cartridge as long as it has the 8 twist to stabilize the 140 gr bullets.

    Later
    [​IMG]
    As an add on here----Most shooters trying to get their rifles to make Williamsport weight and shoot a "Nightforce scope" on it, will shorten the barrel by a couple of inches to do so. Some feel that the shorter barrel will give less vibrations.

    Many or most of our shooters just use a lighter scope (Leupold) and stick with a 30" barrel.
    The barrels MUST be no larger then .950" "maximum" diameter at the muzzle to be within our rule structure.

    Match shooting and LR hunting rifles are not always the same with a rule structure for Match guns. Many would not like to carry a 16 1/2Lb gun as a "carry in" LR rifle.
    If your the type that put roofing nails in your "Wheaties" every morning, you might though.

    [ 02-25-2003: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]
     
  13. demarpaint

    demarpaint Well-Known Member

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    Hi DC

    Thanks for the reply, I had Ray Romain build me a .300 Tomahawk and I am very pleased with it. I have a son who is going to be 16, and I wanted to build something we could enjoy together, and a little smaller than the Tomahawk.

    I have been gathering info for a while now. I really liked all the things I heard about the 6.5-06 Improved, and would have Ray build it for us when I get the cash together.

    We shoot at 1000 yards sometimes a little more Upstate, NY (private property), and were thinking about formal target shooting to 1000 yards at some point down the road. We shoot coke cans at various distances, empty paint cans, clays, squirrels and crows. It would be more of a fun rifle but I would like to be able to shoot in competition with it at some point. Am I asking too much for one gun?

    Thanks
    Frank D
     
  14. Darryl Cassel

    Darryl Cassel Well-Known Member

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    Frank

    The 6.5 Gibbs or the 6.5/284 will fill your needs quite well.

    If you don't want to fool around fireforming the Gibbs, go with the 6.5/284 as the all-around fun and match 1000 yd gun out of the 6.5s you mentioned.

    Just my opinion. [​IMG]

    Later