Help with Bergers!!!!

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by jgss2, Feb 6, 2011.

  1. jgss2

    jgss2 Well-Known Member

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    Has anyone else had this exerience with Bergers. I have a 243 that will shoot 95gr nosler ballistic tips sub .5moa all day long with vit n160 powder. I have used the same charge of n160 with 95 gr VLD hunting bullets and cannot get them to shoot at all. I saw the sticky on here from Berger about loading different seating depths. I went today in good conditions with 6 loads each of .005 off the rifling, .040 off, .080 off, and .120 off. My best 3 shot group at 100yds was about 12inches. That's right 12INCHES!! Most were 15inches to 2feet. Has anyone experienced this. I really wanted to shoot these bullets but I am at a loss for what to do.
     
  2. ICANHITHIMMAN

    ICANHITHIMMAN Well-Known Member

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    Did you read this. Optimizing Precision And Accuracy From VLD Bullets

    It out lines what to do and its only ment to get you close but some times you get lucky there are two diffrent sets of seating depths for the test depending on which bullet your shooting(target or hunting).
     

  3. jgss2

    jgss2 Well-Known Member

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    I did read this which is why I did the test with all the different bullet jumps.
     
  4. screech

    screech Well-Known Member

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    wow, id like to say that because of the extra length of the vld your not stabilizing it but even if it was keyholing it shouldnt be 12" If it was me id try like a 90 or 87gr. berger and see
     
  5. ICANHITHIMMAN

    ICANHITHIMMAN Well-Known Member

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    Did you do a ladder test first find the best charge and then work the setting depths? Thats what I do if the load is real hot after the ladder test I may back the charge off a grain or two and start the seating depth test.

    I had this issue with my 300 win mag not as bad but pretty bad. I was getting 2" groups at 200 yards. I had done the ladder and then played with some primers and switched to nosler brass. After I did all this I did Erics test and that put me at one 308 hole at 200 yards.

    Maybe try another bullet weight, powder or primer? Get is as close as you can before the seating test. I'm sure someone else will have another sugestion for you too.
     
  6. jgss2

    jgss2 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the responses guys. I didn't try different powders and charges because that powder and charge that I used shoots so good with the nosler ballistic tips. If it shoots really good with one bullet, I thought it would be ok with another.
     
  7. learning

    learning Well-Known Member

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    I would shoot the ballistic tips again and make sure they still shoot good. If they do you know its not your scope or mount. If they are that bad I would guess the only thing you could change with the load is the bullet cause nothing is going to shrink that group enough.
     
  8. MTBULLET

    MTBULLET Well-Known Member

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    my .243AI will not shoot them either, but all other cal.s do (with custom BBLS) I'm using a stock Ruger bbl on the .243AI and twist is to slow for BERGER
     
  9. 4xforfun

    4xforfun Well-Known Member

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    No ladder test is going to bring 12 in to .5 in. No load development will bring 12 inches down to .5 inch. Something is very WRONG!!

    Like was stated above...try the BT's again.....If they don't shoot, check the scope....if they do shoot, then ....????.....I really have no idea.

    Good luck.
     
  10. jgss2

    jgss2 Well-Known Member

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    I did shoot the Ball. tips again before I left. The barrel was pretty dirty by then but I shot a 1" group at 200yds so its not the scope or mounts.

    Thanks for the responses. I am stumped.

     
  11. rscott5028

    rscott5028 Well-Known Member

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    I've experienced frustration trying to shoot VLDs from a slow twist barrel before. But, 12 inches at 100yds is rediculous.

    Did you seat them upside down? ... just kidding. But seriously, something is bad wrong.

    I would check concentricity of any rounds you still have loaded and then pull the bullets and start again.

    What do the groups look like?
    horizontal?
    vertical?
    completely random?
    After it cools, does it go back to the original cold bore POI?
    How's the velocity spread?

    Do the bullets visually appear to be consistent before loading them?
    Do the weights vary much?
    Are you loading single shot or via the magazine?
    Could the magazine be messing with the tips?

    How's your neck tension? Did your brass somehow not get sized properly? That happened to me once with a Lee Collet sizer that I assumed was still set correctly. Neck tension was super sloppy and was accentuated by the grooves in the Barnes bullets I was using. Velocity was all over the place. 3" groups.

    Let us know what you find. I'm keen to know how that happened.

    Thanks,
    Richard
     
  12. jgss2

    jgss2 Well-Known Member

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    The groups were completely random. I used brand new win brass. Went through all of the proper steps to prep brass. I seperated the cases by weight, sized, made sure the flash holes and necks were prepped. I loaded the bergers under the same conditions with the same lot of brass that I loaded the ballistic tips with. The ballistic tips shot well. The bergers STUNK. 1 in 9 twist Hart barrel by the way and the bullets were fine. I even weighed them before I loaded them.
     
  13. Browninglover1

    Browninglover1 Well-Known Member

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    The only time I've heard of such poor accuracy was when my uncle was at the gun range and the guy next to him couldn't figure out why his 30-06 was shooting so bad and when they got looking at the loads the guy actually had brought the wrong ammo!

    He was shooting 270 winchester loads that he had created by using necked down 30-06 brass and he actually missed the target 4 of 5 times at 100 yards since the bullet was literally bouncing out of the barrel. He couldn't believe that he had made such a stupid mistake, but by the sounds of it since you used brand new brass and loaded some BT's in the same lot then that obviously wasn't your problem. Good luck figuring it out!
     
  14. rscott5028

    rscott5028 Well-Known Member

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    It sounds like you're very knowledgeable and well equipped. You had a great theory jumping straight to the load data that worked for the other bullet. But, considering the results, I'd say you need to start over from the beginning.

    Don't take shortcuts or make assumptions. It's all physics and not magic.

    Switch powders and work up the load from min to max as if you had never shot the rifle before. ...much less with another 95gr bullet and N160.

    Once you start over, change exactly one thing at a time.

    Good luck.
    Richard