Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
Articles
Latest reviews
Author list
Classifieds
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles and first posts only
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Forums
Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Long Range Scopes and Other Optics
Help me learn to use my scope
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="7magcreedmoor" data-source="post: 942570" data-attributes="member: 48559"><p>No need to apologize, b money. It takes some getting used to. Personally, I'm an MOA guy, mostly because I learned it first a long time ago. MILs work the same way, they are both angular measurements, just different units. The popular adjustment increment on a MIL turret is usually 1/10th MIL per click, or .36" @ 100yds. and the most popular MOA turret increment is usually 1/4 MOA per click or .262" @ 100yds. We tend to round this stuff off for convenience anyway, so three clicks on a MIL system is a change nearly indistinguishable from 4 clicks on an MOA turret (but only for those first few clicks, before anyone else reading this goes nuts- yes, rounding errors do add up). Of course, before you become too heavily invested in those numbers, you want to do a tracking eval on your scope and quantify its ACTUAL click values. After you KNOW what your turret really does, you can write your dope for your scope's reality. The most important thing is the consistency of the clicks, not so much the actual measurement. Example: you test your scope and find that four clicks (1 MOA) is one inch @ 100yds, but 40 clicks is something other than 10 inches. That kind of inconsistency will cause you to tear your hair out when trying to shoot long range. On the other hand, if your scope tests out to 1.5 inches from 4 clicks @ 100 yds, and 15 inches from 40 clicks, then you have consistency that will work, you simply write your comeups based on the observed angle performance of your scope instead of a true minute of angle. Same principle applies to reticle grids- set your mag to the calibrated setting, and get a buddy to mark the target paper where you tell him the dots are as you look through the glass- be absolutely certain of your distance when you do this, one of the ranges I frequent has a 100 yard line that is actually 104 yards. If you haven't measured the range you are shooting on, you must get that information settled before any of this fancy math will work. We can work with distances other than nice even 100 yard increments, but it complicates the math for your dope creation. Using a magnification change to make your MOA turrets work in concert with your MIL reticle as suggested by Bruce Ventura will also require a calibration verification done at a confirmed distance, and for the same reason. Many people start out in the long range game questioning the reliability of the ballistic program they chose when what they have on the printout doesn't get them the point of impact expected on the shooting range. The culprit is almost always inaccurately measured distance to target, muzzle velocity, ballistic coefficient of the bullet, or a combination of the foregoing. If you don't have a good laser, get one. Even if you have the most expensive chrony ever made, when we consider what a chronograph is measuring and HOW it is measuring it, we have to expect some small error in MV readings. BC data from bullet makers can be really spot on from those who sell mostly to competition shooters, or they may "gild the lily" if mostly marketing to hunters who aren't as likely to performance test in a structured fashion. I must again recommend Bryan Litz's "Applied Ballistics" which includes field tested BCs for many popular bullets. In the process of "trajectory validation", I adjust the MV input until the drop chart matches the real life targets at three distances: zero (usually 200yds for my hunting rigs), mid-range(500 or 600) and max range (the farthest distance you intend using the rifle/load combo, or the longest practice range you have access to). In your search for a scope, I say buy the best you can afford. If Nightforce/Zeiss/Swaro and company are out of reach, I will mention that I have been having great experience with Vortex Vipers, and you can get whichever unit of measure you decide is best for you, they make both choices available in the Viper lineup.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="7magcreedmoor, post: 942570, member: 48559"] No need to apologize, b money. It takes some getting used to. Personally, I'm an MOA guy, mostly because I learned it first a long time ago. MILs work the same way, they are both angular measurements, just different units. The popular adjustment increment on a MIL turret is usually 1/10th MIL per click, or .36" @ 100yds. and the most popular MOA turret increment is usually 1/4 MOA per click or .262" @ 100yds. We tend to round this stuff off for convenience anyway, so three clicks on a MIL system is a change nearly indistinguishable from 4 clicks on an MOA turret (but only for those first few clicks, before anyone else reading this goes nuts- yes, rounding errors do add up). Of course, before you become too heavily invested in those numbers, you want to do a tracking eval on your scope and quantify its ACTUAL click values. After you KNOW what your turret really does, you can write your dope for your scope's reality. The most important thing is the consistency of the clicks, not so much the actual measurement. Example: you test your scope and find that four clicks (1 MOA) is one inch @ 100yds, but 40 clicks is something other than 10 inches. That kind of inconsistency will cause you to tear your hair out when trying to shoot long range. On the other hand, if your scope tests out to 1.5 inches from 4 clicks @ 100 yds, and 15 inches from 40 clicks, then you have consistency that will work, you simply write your comeups based on the observed angle performance of your scope instead of a true minute of angle. Same principle applies to reticle grids- set your mag to the calibrated setting, and get a buddy to mark the target paper where you tell him the dots are as you look through the glass- be absolutely certain of your distance when you do this, one of the ranges I frequent has a 100 yard line that is actually 104 yards. If you haven't measured the range you are shooting on, you must get that information settled before any of this fancy math will work. We can work with distances other than nice even 100 yard increments, but it complicates the math for your dope creation. Using a magnification change to make your MOA turrets work in concert with your MIL reticle as suggested by Bruce Ventura will also require a calibration verification done at a confirmed distance, and for the same reason. Many people start out in the long range game questioning the reliability of the ballistic program they chose when what they have on the printout doesn't get them the point of impact expected on the shooting range. The culprit is almost always inaccurately measured distance to target, muzzle velocity, ballistic coefficient of the bullet, or a combination of the foregoing. If you don't have a good laser, get one. Even if you have the most expensive chrony ever made, when we consider what a chronograph is measuring and HOW it is measuring it, we have to expect some small error in MV readings. BC data from bullet makers can be really spot on from those who sell mostly to competition shooters, or they may "gild the lily" if mostly marketing to hunters who aren't as likely to performance test in a structured fashion. I must again recommend Bryan Litz's "Applied Ballistics" which includes field tested BCs for many popular bullets. In the process of "trajectory validation", I adjust the MV input until the drop chart matches the real life targets at three distances: zero (usually 200yds for my hunting rigs), mid-range(500 or 600) and max range (the farthest distance you intend using the rifle/load combo, or the longest practice range you have access to). In your search for a scope, I say buy the best you can afford. If Nightforce/Zeiss/Swaro and company are out of reach, I will mention that I have been having great experience with Vortex Vipers, and you can get whichever unit of measure you decide is best for you, they make both choices available in the Viper lineup. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Forums
Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Long Range Scopes and Other Optics
Help me learn to use my scope
Top