Help me build a 1 mile rifle...

[Pdvdh]

So, again I'm not going to be out tomorrow trying to shoot animals at a mile...rocks and steel are in my plans though...

Obviously your first post led some to believe a 1 mile rifle was meant for 1 mile shots at deer. I wouldn't say a person couldn't kill a deer at 1 mile, but that is a long long distance, and it would take really good equipment, extensive load development and practice, etc, etc, as has been mentioned. Nobody much cares if bullets are flung at vermin at extreme long distance. Some are pretty sensitive about the increased liklihood of wounding and maiming shots on game animals.

Anyhow, now that you've clarified your intentions I'd think that issue would be dropped, and hope that you end up getting more productive comments that we can all learn from. Becoming profiicent at 1000 to 1300 yds is still a very high level skill, requiring very good equipment. All I've done is read about the ultra extreme long range approaches in the one-mile plus ranges, enough to know it gets exponentially (much much) harder to connect and requires even more specialized equipment to be a contender. Quite a few can offer advice on 1000 yd shots. Nobody really discusses one-mile shots on big game animals - even on this Forum - which specializes in Long Range hunting. They either don't do it, or they keep what they do to themselves.

Good luck to ya. Get good at 1000 yds first and then pursue your ambitions as you desire past there.

 

[Buffalobob]

If I was gong to start all over I would first decide between two different routes.

One route would be to build only one rifle and the second would be to build two rifles.

The one rifle route would be a 20 pound moderate 338 such as the edge. This would provide a decent barrel life so I could practice with it frequently. It would not have the best ballistic capabilities so there would be extra skill needed to achieve the end results.

Second path would be to build a 338-408 and a 308. Use the 308 to gain the skill to deal with the far end of the trajectory when sensitivity to wind and range finding is most critical. Use the larger rifle only to test out its trajectory and get a drop chart set up. Setting up a drop chart out to 2K is no trivial matter.

What most of the people who speculate about such shots do not mention is the great difficulty of doing it alone. Having a spotter who is good at spotting and can communicate effectively with you can augment your skill by at least 50%. I learned this very early in my life that how I paired up people increased or decreased their effectiveness.

Animals vary in their nature and their survival instincts. This may sound stupid but it is true. It is best to shoot an animal that is willing to die without perfect bullet placement. Elk while they are big targets they just don't seem to want to fall over dead. There are differences between the sexes of the same species.

Animals are by nature not very cooperative in this type of endeavor and two days this season I have sat where I could see for over a mile and not had a single deer show up. You have to find a place where you can see to shoot and where there are actually going to be animals. If I was serious about it I would consider making arrangements with a hog shooting place to set up a feeder out at a mile and give them a try. Of course that violates the principle of an animal that is willing to die easy.

One thing to consider is do you actually know a place and an animal that you can kill at a mile. That one piece of knowledge is more difficult to come by than what rifle will do the job.

 

[Shawn Carlock]

Wow. I am kind of suprised, I thought I was on the Long Range hunting forum where we support and educate people who have questions and want to learn about LRH.

Adam,

You can build a 1 mile rifle on a 700 action in 7mm not a huge deal, it takes money and some time. It will require excellent optics and some support equipment. As BB stated the best piece of support equipment you can have is a good spotter.
About a rifle: building a 7mm I'd look directly at a 7mm RUM myself if I was in your shoes. Run the 180 Bergers out of a 30" tube with a good brake and youcan watch the bullet impact yourself. I would also recommend a Nightforce scope and their 40 moa base and ring setup. A combo like this is capable of 1800-2000 yard shooting.
About hunting at 1 mile: Very difficult at best, not impossible but seriously difficult. You will find this out when you start shooting these distances at rocks and gongs before you go after game. Consistant well placed first round hits at this distance are possible but usually take unique circumstances. I filmed a first round kill on a whitetail this last year at 1935 yards, let's take a look at some of the details:

1. Very experienced long range shooter behind the rifle (T. Reggear).
2. Using 300 SMK @ 3035 fps
3. This is a big one, practiced at the exact shooting position and target location just the day before the shot was taken.
4. Very similar conditions from practice to taking the shot.
5. 3 very experienced long range shooters (around 36 years total) doping the conditions and spotting.
6. Passed on other deer at this location because of lack of identical conditions.
7. Ballistics - an error of 5 yards in distance will make a drop of 12 inches difference, so you need to know distance to the yard. Every 1 mile an hour of wind will drift 20 inches so you must have the wind doped correctly within .25 mph to make a good hit.

Like I said this was a very unusual circumstance and is doable, but it would be a very rare shot that I would take at this kind of distance on game. GOng and rock shooting is of course a different story. We shot some 2000 yards stuff this last summer very fun and very educational.
I think your on the right track build yourself a rifle see what you can do with it and then go hunting.

 

[JUDD]

Wow. I am kind of suprised, I thought I was on the Long Range hunting forum where we support and educate people who have questions and want to learn about LRH.

Adam,

You can build a 1 mile rifle on a 700 action in 7mm not a huge deal, it takes money and some time. It will require excellent optics and some support equipment. As BB stated the best piece of support equipment you can have is a good spotter.
About a rifle: building a 7mm I'd look directly at a 7mm RUM myself if I was in your shoes. Run the 180 Bergers out of a 30" tube with a good brake and youcan watch the bullet impact yourself. I would also recommend a Nightforce scope and their 40 moa base and ring setup. A combo like this is capable of 1800-2000 yard shooting.
About hunting at 1 mile: Very difficult at best, not impossible but seriously difficult. You will find this out when you start shooting these distances at rocks and gongs before you go after game. Consistant well placed first round hits at this distance are possible but usually take unique circumstances. I filmed a first round kill on a whitetail this last year at 1935 yards, let's take a look at some of the details:

1. Very experienced long range shooter behind the rifle (T. Reggear).
2. Using 300 SMK @ 3035 fps
3. This is a big one, practiced at the exact shooting position and target location just the day before the shot was taken.
4. Very similar conditions from practice to taking the shot.
5. 3 very experienced long range shooters (around 36 years total) doping the conditions and spotting.
6. Passed on other deer at this location because of lack of identical conditions.
7. Ballistics - an error of 5 yards in distance will make a drop of 12 inches difference, so you need to know distance to the yard. Every 1 mile an hour of wind will drift 20 inches so you must have the wind doped correctly within .25 mph to make a good hit.

Like I said this was a very unusual circumstance and is doable, but it would be a very rare shot that I would take at this kind of distance on game. GOng and rock shooting is of course a different story. We shot some 2000 yards stuff this last summer very fun and very educational.
I think your on the right track build yourself a rifle see what you can do with it and then go hunting.

I wish there was more people like this...Less bashing and more teaching and helping.

Even though this is'nt my thread thanks Shawn you always seem to live up to your rep which from my research on here is very very respectable

 

[FEENIX]

I wish there was more people like this...Less bashing and more teaching and helping.

Even though this is'nt my thread thanks Shawn you always seem to live up to your rep which from my research on here is very very respectable

+1! I was wondering the same thing ... I thought this is why Len founded this forum.

 

[adam32]

Wow. I am kind of suprised, I thought I was on the Long Range hunting forum where we support and educate people who have questions and want to learn about LRH.

Adam,

You can build a 1 mile rifle on a 700 action in 7mm not a huge deal, it takes money and some time. It will require excellent optics and some support equipment. As BB stated the best piece of support equipment you can have is a good spotter.
About a rifle: building a 7mm I'd look directly at a 7mm RUM myself if I was in your shoes. Run the 180 Bergers out of a 30" tube with a good brake and youcan watch the bullet impact yourself. I would also recommend a Nightforce scope and their 40 moa base and ring setup. A combo like this is capable of 1800-2000 yard shooting.
About hunting at 1 mile: Very difficult at best, not impossible but seriously difficult. You will find this out when you start shooting these distances at rocks and gongs before you go after game. Consistant well placed first round hits at this distance are possible but usually take unique circumstances. I filmed a first round kill on a whitetail this last year at 1935 yards, let's take a look at some of the details:

1. Very experienced long range shooter behind the rifle (T. Reggear).
2. Using 300 SMK @ 3035 fps
3. This is a big one, practiced at the exact shooting position and target location just the day before the shot was taken.
4. Very similar conditions from practice to taking the shot.
5. 3 very experienced long range shooters (around 36 years total) doping the conditions and spotting.
6. Passed on other deer at this location because of lack of identical conditions.
7. Ballistics - an error of 5 yards in distance will make a drop of 12 inches difference, so you need to know distance to the yard. Every 1 mile an hour of wind will drift 20 inches so you must have the wind doped correctly within .25 mph to make a good hit.

Like I said this was a very unusual circumstance and is doable, but it would be a very rare shot that I would take at this kind of distance on game. GOng and rock shooting is of course a different story. We shot some 2000 yards stuff this last summer very fun and very educational.
I think your on the right track build yourself a rifle see what you can do with it and then go hunting.

Thank you for the info Shawn!! As some people noticed I wasn't going to go out tomorrow and try to shoot game at a mile, I've just been off work lately and was kinda bored and wanted to start a discussion to see what other people would do and how...

 

[malcarjeb]

Shawn,

I have exbal and if im looking at it right the 7RUM with a 180 Berger and velocity of 3300 at the muzzle only has 665 of energy and a velocity of 1290. Is this sufficient for cleanly killing a whitetail deer?? I have no experience, but I would think(or want) you need a little more velocity and energy. Berger recommends a velocity of about 1600fps for reliable bullet expansion and for the 7RUM that would be around 1350 yards. For this same distance I am tring to pick a caliber now and have just about made my mind up on a 338 RUM or Edge.

Again, I have NO EXPERIENCE and I'm wanting to learn something here, not argue.
Thanks for everyones help.

 

[JUDD]

Thank you for the info Shawn!! As some people noticed I wasn't going to go out tomorrow and try to shoot game at a mile, I've just been off work lately and was kinda bored and wanted to start a discussion to see what other people would do and how...

I would recomend call Kevin or one of the other knowledgable smiths(Shawn,Kirby,many others). Kevin as do many others have the equipment and knowledge to make this happen. They will guide you straight and fill you in on how to or how not to make this happen.

Some people need to realize long range shooters need to start somewhere and not all will just jump into this game and start shooting a mile at game. It doesn't hurt a thing to have a goal or hope to accomplish a shot like this as long as your prepared for it when you do it.

I'll tell you right now I have a goal to make a big game kill at a mile+. Will i go try it before I'm ready no. I'll turn down more shots then I would take at this range becuse conditions are not suitable. Hell I don't even have the gun to do this at the moment...but I'm slowly preparing myself for when I do

Reach out for your knowledge..learn, practice, practice some more and have a blast...thats what this is all about

 

[Pdvdh]

Shawn,

I have exbal and if im looking at it right the 7RUM with a 180 Berger and velocity of 3300 at the muzzle only has 665 of energy and a velocity of 1290. Is this sufficient for cleanly killing a whitetail deer?? I have no experience, but I would think(or want) you need a little more velocity and energy. Berger recommends a velocity of about 1600fps for reliable bullet expansion and for the 7RUM that would be around 1350 yards. For this same distance I am tring to pick a caliber now and have just about made my mind up on a 338 RUM or Edge.

Again, I have NO EXPERIENCE and I'm wanting to learn something here, not argue.
Thanks for everyones help.

Scott,

I'm pretty sure Shawn was talking 'shooting' versus 'hunting' at one mile plus with the 7mm RUM. I noticed he changed gears from shooting to specifically talking about a one mile plus shot on a deer, and at that point he described a 338 "Something" with 300 gr SMKs with a MV a tad bit faster than a 338 Edge.

With this thread, the confusion started with a misunderstanding of shooting & hunting at one mile, versus shooting at one mile and hunting at 1000 yds, versus shooting and hunting at 1000 yds. I guess we need to be clear about what the current intention is, big game or steel/rocks.

Depending on the elevation and station pressure (out west at higher elevation), the 180 Berger will get out farther than at sea level. But impact velocity is the crimp in the works for the lesser horsepower cartridges at long range. My 7mm Rem Mags are good to about 1000 yd impact velocity with the Berger VLDs. Past there, even if I hit, I can't be certain about bullet expansion. And expansion is required unless you brain'em.

I see we're getting some of the good information presented now. Good stuff.

 

[malcarjeb]

Thanks Paul, my mind was in hunting gear. I see what you are saying--makes more since.

 

[bigngreen]

I sure am glad some guys saved this thread, it was looking like a BR site for a few post there, it has gotten much more interesting.
I think the RUM with the Wildcats would be the ticket, that combo looks good even at extreme long range. The only thing that would worry me is that it's such a barrel scorcher by reputation that it may be hard to keep everything consistent enough long enough to get things worked out at extreme ranges, consistency of the chambering and the barrel with low ES and SD seems to be a real key to LRH and essential to extreme LRH.

 

[RFears]

Guys, followed all here, my opinion is of one, a purpose build, .338 Lapua. That would be my only choice for this young man. It makes a great dear rifle, elk or any other game that you might run across including steels and rocks. It is more than capable of one mile accurate shot within the hands of a well trained gunny. If your loading capibility is good, this unit will deliver....Just my 2 cents...

 

[RDM416]

Adam,

I am glad some guys like Shawn jumped in with some great advice. Most of us have been where you are, getting started and curious about what "can" be done. As Shawn pointed out, it "can" be done but there are few with the skill and experience to actually do it.

As far as what rifle, (stating the obvious) you want to shoot as high a BC bullet at the fastest speeds possible. I know that sounds basic (and is). That is where Shawn is comming from with the 7mmRUM, you can shoot high bc 180s and shoot them pretty fast.

Better yet is to move up to a larger cal., maybe .338 in a 338 Edge or 338AM and shoot big 300 grain bullets.

Even better is to go .50 cal. I have a 510 AM built by Kirby. On a good day with little wind (or a good steady wind) I can shoot 10 inch groups at a mile...... But my skill level is still far from being ready to try a shot at a deer at a mile even with that 50 pound monster shooting 750 grain bullets!

A one shot cold barrel kill at a mile regardless of what they are shooting is pretty "rarified air" not many can do it, I sure can't, but there are certainly some who can under the right conditions.

Like some others have said........have fun getting to 500 then to 1000 then worry about a mile........but it sure is fun to dream and try......... that is what it is all about!

Good luck on your journey, have fun!

Rick

 

[adam32]

Adam,

I am glad some guys like Shawn jumped in with some great advice. Most of us have been where you are, getting started and curious about what "can" be done. As Shawn pointed out, it "can" be done but there are few with the skill and experience to actually do it.

As far as what rifle, (stating the obvious) you want to shoot as high a BC bullet at the fastest speeds possible. I know that sounds basic (and is). That is where Shawn is comming from with the 7mmRUM, you can shoot high bc 180s and shoot them pretty fast.

Better yet is to move up to a larger cal., maybe .338 in a 338 Edge or 338AM and shoot big 300 grain bullets.

Even better is to go .50 cal. I have a 510 AM built by Kirby. On a good day with little wind (or a good steady wind) I can shoot 10 inch groups at a mile...... But my skill level is still far from being ready to try a shot at a deer at a mile even with that 50 pound monster shooting 750 grain bullets!

A one shot cold barrel kill at a mile regardless of what they are shooting is pretty "rarified air" not many can do it, I sure can't, but there are certainly some who can under the right conditions.

Like some others have said........have fun getting to 500 then to 1000 then worry about a mile........but it sure is fun to dream and try......... that is what it is all about!

Good luck on your journey, have fun!

Rick

Thanks for the reply Rick. I'm not totally new to the LR thing, I had a .243 AI built around the 105gr Bergers and have been taking her to 600-800 on milk jugs and just recently finally set up some steel. I will be doing a 7mm RUM or AM in the next year, just since I have the bullets so why not?!