Help getting sized 1x fired brass to fit in chamber

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by gearfoot, Jul 29, 2010.

  1. gearfoot

    gearfoot Member

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    I picked up 100 rounds of 1 x fired 300 Win Mag brass at a gunshow recently. I ran it all through my RCBS die and it is very difficult to chamber. There is a polished area all around the case just in front of the band.

    It seems like my chamber is a bit tight or my die is a bit loose.

    What can I do? Would I be better off buying new brass?

    Thanks.
     
  2. winmag

    winmag Well-Known Member

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    A pollished spot in front of the belt after sizing, or after trying to chamber?
    Im goin out on a limb and gonna guess it appeared after trying to chamber. In wich case Id try a small base die if the one you have wont adjust down any further. I know RCBS makes one for loading for Auto's.
    Good luck
     

  3. KRP

    KRP Well-Known Member

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  4. mtelkhntr78

    mtelkhntr78 Well-Known Member

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    I had a similar thing happen with both of my rifles chambered in 257 Wby. I have one that is a Vanguard and one that is a Remington. Then I had the same thing again in a Rem 30-06. I was frustrated as hell!!!! I tried sizing once fired brass(fired in differnt guns) with RCBS dies and it still would not chamber in any of the guns. That led me to believe it was a die issue not a rifle issue. I was full-length sizing as far as I could get the case into the die but I still had a feeling that the case wasnt being sized across the full length. That was confirmed when I checked with my headspace gauge to see how far back the shoulder was getting bumped. It wasnt moving at all. Now when I say headspace I mean from the base to the shoulder not from the base to the belt as headspace is refered on belted magnums.

    What I recomend:
    Call RCBS and tell them about it and see if they can fix or give you new dies.
    or
    Try some different full-length dies

    What I did:
    I took an ever so slight amout of material off the top of my shell holder to allow the case to go just a bit further into the die. Now skeptics, I wasnt out with the ol die grinder blasting away on it, I mesaured the thickness of the shell holder and then took some fine grit sandpaper and would remove a .001 at a time. I set the sandpaper on top of a piece of glass and then would carefully polish some material off. I wanted to keep the removal of material even so the shell holder would make full contact with the die and not be cock-eyed. Then I would re-size the case and then measue to see if the shoulder was getting pushed at all. I kept repeating the process(it took forever but I didnt want to rush it) untill I got the sholder to move back about .002. Low and behold every case started to chamber with no problems. All told I took about .005 off the top of the shell holder before the dies were actually doing a full-length size on the cases.

    After I figured out that my RCBS die/shellholder combo didnt work so I got some new LEE dies that worked fine for full length sizing and havent had any issues with chambering.

    Now I dont recomend screwing with your dies/shellholder to much and you need to be way carefull that you dont push the shoulder back to far. Its alot of work to make sure its right and I did it more of as a test. The process worked for me but I think that if you just get some different dies(non-RCBS) you may get the same result. The whole thing really jaded me on RCBS stuff(that and some other poor RCBS equipment) and I dont use their dies anymore. I know lots of folks really love RCBS stuff but my experience is showing me that the RCBS of 20yrs ago isnt the same quality of what you can buy now.

    Keep us posted on how things are going.
     
  5. 300 ultra

    300 ultra Well-Known Member

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    Yep had the same issue. I now use Redding Full length dies.
     
  6. Gunpoor

    Gunpoor Well-Known Member

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    I had this exact same issue with a 264Winmag and brass that I had fired in another 264 I had owned previously. I screwed the sizer die down to where the die was starting to bump the belt and they would chamber but not easily, so I bought all new brass and all was well.
     
  7. gearfoot

    gearfoot Member

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    It is after trying to chamber. They chamber after full length sizing but very hard. There is no chance of them chambering before I size, it's just that the die isn't making them small enough.

    It just sucks getting rid of this much brass.
     
  8. boomtube

    boomtube Well-Known Member

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    Turn your FL die down another 1/16th turn and size 'em again.
     
  9. RockZ

    RockZ Well-Known Member

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    Get the innovative technologies collet die that KRP
    mentioned.
    I had the same problem and got the die.
    It works great!
     
  10. Dean2

    Dean2 Member

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    Especially on belted magnums, there can be quite a difference in how thick the belt is from one make of case to another. A thin belted case will have an expansion area too low for the die to reach. In addition, if you have a slightly short chamber the die may not screw down far enough to bump the shoulder back. Redding sells a set of shaved shell holders just for this purpose. You can order them from Sinclairs, they get thinner .001 at a time.

    Once you have them full length sized to fit, try just neck sizing them from then on, without bumping the shoulder. I find I can get quite a few more reloads per case, better accuracy as they now headspace on the shoulder instead of the belt, and they don't bind at all when feeding. (I only bump the shoulder back .001 if the rounds start to get tight when chambering them).

    Sounds odd but give it a try, I found it accidentally when I was neck turning and neck sizing trying to get better accrracy out of a 300 Win Mag. I now start with new brass for all my belted mags, neck size only once the case has been fired in the gun it will be used in and I never swap brass between guns. Good luck.
     
  11. gearfoot

    gearfoot Member

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    I believe the problem was my die. I machined 0.015" off of it and I think it needs more. The brass will chamber now with minimal effort anyways.

    Thanks for all of the advice.
     
  12. larrywillis

    larrywillis Well-Known Member

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    Re: Making your belted Mag handloads fit perfectly

    gearfoot .......

    It's almost never a good idea to cut material from your die. This is a common mistake that's done to allow your case to go in farther in, but this causes bigger problems 99% of the time. There are 2 main reasons why handloads don't fit.

    1.) The shoulder needs to get bumped back (just -.001")
    2.) The case is too wide above the belt.

    About 90% of the time, the case is too wide (or bulged) just above the belt. This problem is made much worse by pushing the shoulder back "too far".

    Here's why:

    When the case is fired, it stretches to fill out the chamber. This stretching is increased when you're pushing the shoulder back too far. That thins and weakens the brass just above the belt, and you'll soon get headspace separations.

    The best way to resize is with a FL die, but be sure to only bump the shoulder back -.001" to -.002" at the most. This is easily done if you can compare your handloads "at the shoulder" to one of your fired cases.

    Also keep in mind that the diameter of factory cases (above the belt) starts out at .507" and they will become too tight in most chambers at .513"

    Read the first page on my website, and you'll see how shooters are solving this problem.
    www.larrywillis.com
     
  13. mtelkhntr78

    mtelkhntr78 Well-Known Member

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    Larry, thanks for the insite. My question for you is what do you do when you full size a case to the max extent possible and get NO movent on the shoulder? Thats what happened to me. It happend to me with two of my 257 wbys and my 30-06, I was doing a max full size but I could never get shoulder to move untill I took some material off the top of my shell holder.
     
  14. larrywillis

    larrywillis Well-Known Member

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    Re: Accurate FL Resizing

    mtelkhntr78 .......

    I'd be very suspicious about how you actually measure the clearance (at the shoulder) that YOUR handloads have in YOUR particular chambers. I say that because all FL dies are made to produce handloads that are smaller than the smallest minimum SAAMI spec dimensions, and production rifle chambers are made to accept even the largest handloads of a given caliber. There's quite a difference.

    When you measure your handloads, you only have half the information. You also need to know the size of your particular chamber to see how your handloads will fit.

    That's why I developed the Digital Headspace Gauge. It's calibrated to YOUR rifle by zeroing on one of your fired cases. Then you just measure your handloads (at the shoulder) to see the actual chamber clearance.

    Of course, it's always possible for a die manufacturer to error, but it's very unlikely. Modern CNC manufacturing produces chambers (and dies) that are incredibly well made.