HELP!! ejector marks on brass???

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Sasquatch, May 25, 2005.

  1. Sasquatch

    Sasquatch Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    198
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Yesterday I went out and fired a box of factory 150 gr. winchester ammo through my .30-06 and when I was inspecting the brass after I tumbled it over night, every one has an ejector mark on it.

    This brass was supposed to replace some that I thought I had the load too hot in my workups, but now I am wondering if there is something funky happening with the rifle. I took the action and barrel off of the stock and did a thorough cleaning 170 rounds ago. The barrell gets cleaned after every trip to shoot, whether I shoot one shot or 50. The 20 reloads that had the ejector marks were shot with some fowling in the barrell, about 15 rounds of an old load. I had just finished cleaning the action/barrell when I left to go shoot the factory loads.

    Does anyone have an idea as to what would cause this????????
     
  2. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,362
    Joined:
    May 3, 2001
    I get ejector marks on some of my factory and handloads too. I believe it a combination of tight(er) chamber (custom rifles), short(er) throats and the sensitivity to look for ejector marks.
     

  3. Sasquatch

    Sasquatch Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    198
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Is this something I should worry about in a remington barrell, the primers aren't showing any pressure signs and I am only getting .0003 " expansion around the body of the case after it has been fired
     
  4. Ian M

    Ian M Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,410
    Joined:
    May 3, 2001
    There are some brands of brass that seem to be softer than others. We get very poor reloading life with Federal in the .308 Win. for some reason. Primer pockets get loose with only one or two loadings vs a dozen or more with Winchesters. You may have a batch of cases that are slightly soft, the pressures may be somewhat higher in that particular run of ammo, you may have had some oil in the chamber which caused more rearward thrust - just a few considerations. If the primer pockets are tight I would not be concerned - not likely an issue with your rifle so much as an issue with that lot of ammo.

    If the pockets are enlarged the pressure was significantly high and I would toss the brass, not worth taking a chance of blowing a primer.
     
  5. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,362
    Joined:
    May 3, 2001
    Is that expansion at the base (web area) or on the body??

    Is this a new rifle?

    What brand of brass?

    Have you shot these over a chronograph by any chance?
     
  6. Sasquatch

    Sasquatch Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    198
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    the high point of expansion is in the web area. It starts to be measurable about half way down the body and increases to the web. The expansion is usually only there after the first firing of the brass in this rifle. I use a full length resizing die set to push the shoulder on the brass back about .002" every time I reload. The bullet is seated to be about .075 away from the rifling of the barrel (which I found by taking a bullet and blackening it with soot from a match then putting it in a once fired case that had been pressed against the table just enough to hold the bullet in place. I then chambered the dummy round and let the rifling seat the bullet. I seated it .002" deaper using the press and die and resutted the bullet then chambered it again, no sut rubbed off and I use this length as the point of contact to be safe) The .075 above is right in the middle between the recommended COL and the contact point.
    I have been shooting this rifle for 10 years now and fired several thousand rounds through it, mostly reloads. I use only winchester brass because it is affordable and consistant enough for me. I do not have a chrono, so no I haven't shot over one. This weekend I am going home to see my parents and might be able to borrow my uncle's if the speed is important info. for the reloads.

    I thought the ejector marks were a sign of high pressure in my reloads and was hard on the brass. I got the factory loads specifically for the brass, but they had the ejector marks as well after the initial firing. The comment about it maybe being oil in the chamber makes some sense to me because of the cleaning only an hour or so before the factory loads were fired.

    I am really appreciative of the help you are all giving me.
     
  7. Mysticplayer

    Mysticplayer Writers Guild

    Messages:
    1,459
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2001
    Sasquatch, extractor marks do usually indicate higher pressures but that depends on the brass vs the pressure. I run pressures in my LC brass that most commercial brass will not tolerate.

    Is the bolt lift easy? Is there any problems with extraction - sticky or bits of brass shaving off? how many reloads before the pockets get loose? 6 reloads seems to be a min. measure of pressure for that brass lot. Did you change lots of ANY of your components?

    You said that you have shot thousands of rds down that barrel. Consider that the bore is much rougher now so you have to adjust your loads to accomodate that change.

    Back off a few grains and work up. Find the best accuracy where the brass doesn't show issues that concern you.

    Jerry
     
  8. LB

    LB Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    423
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    I would be concerned. Whether it's split necks, flattened primers or loose primer pockets, and including ejector marks, (imprints) there is cause for concern.

    This is factory ammuntion you are using, but you had pressure signs of some kind(?) with handloads, previously. If you are reading 3 thou expansion on the web area, is that consistant with your previous handloads, or not? Is this, by chance a used rifle, that you purchased, with brass thrown in? Have you ever shot virgin brass (before) in this gun?

    A good question was about "hard" bolt lift. Yes or no? How about closing the bolt on a live round? Can you measure the unfired case length to see if the necks are crushing in the chamber? What sort of performance did you get on target with that 20 rounds? Normal, or not quite as accurate as the gun is capable of?

    I would not blow it off. Ejector marks are generally an indicator of high pressures, but they won't tell you the reason for the high pressure. This could be anything from a bad lot of ammo to excessive headspace and including a very fouled barrel. Something does not add up, here?

    I think you are bumping the shoulder a little too much.

    Good hunting. LB
     
  9. abinok

    abinok Writers Guild

    Messages:
    877
    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Just a little thought...
    On rifles with spring/plunger ejectors, its possible for the spring to be heavy enough, and the plunger face rough enough, that simply closing the bolt, and reopening it will leave a shiny spot on the casehead. It won't be a small mark the diameter of the ejector, but a curved shiny spot about 2-3 times as wide as the ejector depending on the bolt lift required by your specific action.
     
  10. Sasquatch

    Sasquatch Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    198
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    . bolt lift is still very easy, bolt closes just like there were no shell in the chamber. I have never had primer pockets loosen up enough that I notice it. I get 7-10 reloads usually out of a lot of brass before the necks start to show verticle lines, then I toss them. Only use first six reloads for hunting big game and targets, after that they go into the fun rounds box. I've heard I can get more reloads if I anneal the necks but never have done it. I have 2 firings on the brass that is showing the ejector marks now and did not change any of my components. Winchester brass, remington primers, 51.0 gr. IMR 4064, 150 Hornady interbond pill. The primers are the same lot I have used for both firings, have another 851 to go, and the powder is out of the same 8 pound jug as the last 249 rounds were.

    As for accuracy, the reloads had 14/20 p-dog hits at ranges from 50 to 250 yards, and I didn't keep track of the factory loads accuracy at all.

    The gun was given to me brand new on my 14th birthday, May 30, 1996, so I misspoke in an earlier post, it is only 9 years old. The first 200 rounds through the rifle were factory loads with virgin brass. After that I shot 90-95% reloads. Every time I shoot the factory loads I get the .0003 in the web. I haven't been concerned about the 3 tenthousandths difference because it is only there with the virgin brass. I have not papered this gun for about 300 rounds or so, but the groups were5 shot groups ranging anywhere from 3/8 to 3/4 inch at 100 yards. These were shot using steady sticks to support the rifle and I was in a high sitting position. I have not fired off of sandbags for 3 years, so don't know for sure exactly what this shooter/rifle combo can do any more.

    Unfired case length is 2.480" on brass I reloaded in that batch. Fired length is 2.481 on the five I just checked.

    Do you think less of a shoulder bump would help clear it up?


    Sorry if I seam to ramble, but I'm trying to give as much information as I can so you all can have an idea what is happening.
     
  11. LB

    LB Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    423
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    ejector marks, means different things to different people. If this is just a case of soft brass and "marks" on the headstamp, that's one thing. If you get an actual round depression the size and shape of the ejector, that is a pressure indicator. You can't rub these off, it will be an actual dent. LB
     
  12. Pete Lincoln

    Pete Lincoln Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    658
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    You mentioned case length. have you taken that of cases perviously fired in this rifle or virgin brass when comparing to the caes you just fired? Is the ejector mark you refer to an indentation in the head or is it a rised bump.?
    Ive seen Remingtons with over sized headspace where the cases come slamming back into the bolt face, which slightly hammers the head and as the ejector hole offers less resistance than the rest of the bolt face brass will then be pushed into this hole leaving a slight bump or nipple. This happening over thousands of rounds tends to hammer the bolt lugs also and they develope a slight bur.
    Now i've also seen a dent in the case head in the ejector possition, but that was due to a slightly long ejector that couldn't retract enough.
    Just some thoughts to add to the list.
    Pete
     
  13. Sasquatch

    Sasquatch Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    198
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    it was a little scratchy dent. I took the gun into a gunsmith and told him what was happening. I went to get some reloading stuff and when I came back he said there was a tiny burr on the ejector and he polished it off. No more marks /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
     
  14. deltastriper

    deltastriper New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2016
    Thank you for that info, exactly what's happening to my Howa1500. Is that a matter of concern?