help choose load

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by foreign, Aug 25, 2009.

  1. foreign

    foreign Well-Known Member

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    was doing some load development for new varmint gun today and found what i view as funny results. the higher the charge load the worse the groups seemed to get. which isnt idea since them my loads are going to be slow.
    loading for .223
    80gr target bullets
    ar2208 powder whinchester small primers
    remington brass
    load started at 23gr and went up in .3 grs to 25.1. that isnt max yet
    so should i look above and see what max is and see if i get a node higher up (its close to max though i think)
    should i settle with slow load
    i still need to take it out to 2 or 300m but just want some advice. here hte targets at 100[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]loads go left to right then bottom to top for last sheet which i cant rotate for some reason,
    shot one round at each target then the next in a round robbin type thing. the reason for the last bullet hole by its self is since i mist a target on the last series of loads so i just kept going and then drew them in. ignore the bullet holes with the black lines on them in the last 3 targets.
    cheers
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2009
  2. JUDD

    JUDD Well-Known Member

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    Don't get caught up in the screamin speed game...If your lookin for groups at moderate ranges then speed is not really a big issue. Find out where it shoots the best and leave it alone.

    Speed doesn't matter if you can't keep it on the paper. Otherwise your gonna be tellin yourself "well I came in second place but she sure is fast":rolleyes:!!
     

  3. MN Hunter

    MN Hunter Well-Known Member

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    Feb 4, 2009
    I would try a different powder. I have had good luck with varget and Barnes varmit grenade bullets.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2009
  4. james blond

    james blond Active Member

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    those groups are dire- this is interesting as i had the same with my remmy xcr tact' lr

    iv tried so many loads but then - found a gem :)

    try this :

    Nosler 50g ballistic tips

    Viht N133 25g

    or Benchmark 25g

    i use rem 7.5 primers and the results...

    iv achieved .75" @ 300 yards and i was really chuffed- i need more room to test it further but these rounds decimate anything furry or feathered unfortunate enough to get in its way... let me know how you get on... James
     
  5. foreign

    foreign Well-Known Member

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    mn hunter. adi2208 is the same thing as varget.
    james im trying to use these hi bc bullets that i have for long range. aiming to shoot bunnies at 600yrds. they hava a bc of.440 and are match grade made locally here from berger j4 jackets.
    judd im really looking for a long range round so thats my issue.
    loading manual says that ill be getting around 2600 with 23 grs. (dont have a chrono)
    or local fohn wind has started so wont get any calm for the next few days.
    but think i may load uo a few higher and see and test the slower ones at longer ranges and hope they have constant velocities.
    cheers
     
  6. james blond

    james blond Active Member

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    My rifle has a long target barrel and so pushes out 3400ft.ps with those loads i gave you.

    I have taken rabbits at 300- literally detonates them :)

    Iv yet to map my rifle to 400+yards i reckon with the bullets it likes i would feel confident on a still day and thats the key with the .223 to take a bunny at 500 yards- as for 600 well id like to see your grouping with the heavier bullets at that range

    Iv never tried anything heavier than 60g i wouldn't mind trying some of your bullet heads, fancy shipping me some??

    Whats the combo your using then??? mines a Remmy 700 XCR Tactical, 26" barrel 1:9 twist, bell & carlson floated and pillar bedded stock with a Nightforce 8-32 NXS- its favorite load is remmy brass with 26.5g Benchmark, 6.5 remmy small rifle primers & 50g nosler ballistic tip (coe of .247 i think...??) these group a 5 shot string- 12mm @ 200 yards, 19mm @ 300yards - yet to map the further
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2009
  7. foreign

    foreign Well-Known Member

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    james mate those are some wicked groups. you should be nocking the bunnies flat then. i knocked over 2 the other day at 230 and 226. the silencer is mint. the others dont know what to do. a nightforce. soooo jealous. i wish i had one. currently looking for a scope for my .223. been taking the scope of my .308 for it. but want more magnification than 14.
    this guy also makes 69gr bullets that have a bc of .400.
    i have a stevens which ive put in a choate varmint stock. lightened the trigger with different spring, bedded action and came with a silencer. barrel is around 22 inchs i think. havent measured it though. 1in 9 twist. so far the 23 grs varget, 80gr, remi brass whinchester small primers one group in load development of .174 outside of holes.
    about shipping you some bullets. yea sure. where abouts are you. im after some zee rings and inserts for mew scope. maybe we could come to some sort of arrangement.
    these bullets are $nz50 for 100.
    cheers
     
  8. james blond

    james blond Active Member

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    Hi buddy- a bc' of .400 ... is that good??? im not up on bc's...!!!! i just buy a box of bullets, experiment with powders and group them.

    If they group then i move them further back and make 5 batches of 5 bullets all with different powders and see how they group.

    Id rather just send you some dollars via pay pal for say 20 bullets and that will be enough for me to see how they fly. This way we are both straight and it doesn't get confusing who owes which and what.

    You mention rings- the best iv ever bought are on my .223 at the moment- U.S Optics. Check out their web site- the rings are awesome and built like nothing iv ever seen or used before.

    Seriously i set the zero 2 years ago and its still mm perfect, although thats also down to the scope. If your able to get a small loan or overdraft i would really recommend you buying just Nightforce. Its my second and although they are mega bucks they are the mutts nuts. Never shift zero, ultra thin ret' for long range work and optical clarity that amazes me still even now.

    Yep it sure bowls over bunnys. I was on the bi-pod the other day and took a really tricky shot on a baby one, it was 280 yards and tiny, i gave it 1 click as it was down hill- (normally 2 at 200) and let the match trigger go. Well the rabbit was a gonner, it detonated so much all that was left was a patch of red spray on the grass and a leg which landed where the rabbit was about 2 seconds after i shot it- the rest just vanished. You can't pay for entertainment like that :)

    What moderator do you use? iv an A-Tec Export, its good but the crack i get pushing these loads out at 3500ft.ps does give a healthy crack... its worth it though. The faster the bullet the more the comedy value :)

    drop me an email and we can discuss the shipping etc. and i can zap you some images of rabbit carnage at various ranges.

    james@jamesbrewergardens.co.uk
     
  9. foreign

    foreign Well-Known Member

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    Jun 26, 2008
    hey james those 50g nosler ballistic tip have a bc of .238bc comparatively
    the higher the bc the bette the bullet carries and bucks wind. heres a quick calculation of the two different loads
    your 50 gr balistic tips at 3400
    RangeVelocityImpactDropToFEnergyDrift03400-1.50012830203298-0.930.10.0212080.48403210-0.480.320.0411440.61603125-0.180.680.0610840.83803040-0.021.190.0810261.14100295801.840.19711.551202877-0.142.650.129192.041402797-0.453.630.148692.641602719-0.944.790.168213.341802642-1.636.140.187754.142002567-2.517.690.217325.062202493-3.69.450.236906.092402421-4.9211.440.256517.252602350-6.4713.660.286138.522802280-8.2816.130.315779.933002211-10.3618.880.3354311.483202143-12.7121.90.3651013.163402077-15.3825.240.39479153602011-18.3628.890.4244916.993801947-21.6932.890.4542119.144001885-25.437.260.4839521.474201823-29.4942.020.5136923.974401763-33.9947.190.5434526.664601705-38.9552.820.5832329.554801648-44.3858.920.6230232.635001593-50.3465.540.6528235.93 1000894-501.04532.95289190.46. the 69gr, bc.400 bullets of mine at 3100
    RangeVelocityImpactDropToFEnergyDrift03100-1.50014720203044-0.90.120.0214200.46402995-0.430.380.0413740.55602946-0.130.80.0613300.698028980.031.370.0812870.89100285002.120.112451.151202803-0.23.040.1212041.471402757-0.564.130.1511651.851602711-1.125.410.1711262.291802665-1.866.880.1910882.82002620-2.88.540.2110523.372202576-3.9510.410.24101742402532-5.312.490.269824.712602488-6.8814.790.289485.482802445-8.6717.310.319166.333002402-10.720.060.338847.253202360-12.9823.060.368538.243402319-15.526.310.388249.313602278-18.2829.810.4179510.463802237-21.3333.590.4476711.694002196-24.6637.640.46739134202156-28.2941.990.4971214.44402117-32.246.630.5268715.884602077-36.4351.580.5566117.464802039-40.9856.860.5863719.125002000-45.8762.470.6161320.8910001227-327.23361.931.58231103.44and the 80gr bc.440 at 2900
    RangeVelocityImpactDropToFEnergyDrift02900-1.50014940202852-0.850.130.0214450.46402809-0.360.420.0414020.55602766-0.060.90.0713590.698027250.071.550.0913190.89100268302.40.1112791.141202642-0.263.440.1312401.461402601-0.714.670.1612021.831602561-1.386.120.1811652.261802521-2.267.780.211292.762002482-3.369.650.2310943.322202443-4.6911.760.2510603.952402404-6.2414.090.2810274.642602366-8.0416.670.39945.42802328-10.0919.50.339636.233002290-12.422.590.359327.133202253-14.9725.940.389028.113402216-17.8129.560.418729.153602180-20.9433.470.4384410.283802144-24.3737.680.4681711.484002108-28.0942.180.4978912.764202072-32.13470.5276314.134402037-36.552.150.5573715.574602002-41.257.630.5871217.114801967-46.2563.460.6168718.735001933-51.6669.650.6466420.45


    10001239-351.68389.151.6227399.04so you can see that the drop is similar but the wind bucking is heaps better with the longer bullets. plus alot more energy so they will go far further. if you look at the 1000yrd data then its way better to have the heaviest bullet available.
    i thought that you may live in the states. thats why i was thinking about getting you to get me rings. everythings so cheep there. whish i could get a nightforce. looked at one in the gun shop the other day and luckly i didnt have my visa cos i probably would have got it. but at $nz3500 its a little crazy. thats a fully custom gun.
    just got a vortex viper off nad1967. hopefully its what i want. and was only $400us. we will see. ill order some more bullets shortly and send you 20 in an envelope. that way shipping should be cheep. hopefully customs wont do anything funny.
    whats ur address in england. my mums from cobham, surrey. so im a british citizen too. haha. will have a look at those rinds and see if there in my budget thanks.
    my silencer is made by a company here called canterbury gunworks. i posted some pics of my rig a while ago. search for first paint job.
    i love watching bunnies explode. though lately we have been selling them for dog food to pay for ammo. $5 a bunnie helps with costs, so trying to not damage then too much now.
    cheers

    wow those charts didnt come out at all. hopefully they did in the email i sent you
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2009