Had my scope mounted but...

Discussion in 'Long Range Scopes and Other Optics' started by monster, Apr 26, 2012.

  1. monster

    monster Member

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    I finally decided on which scope to get for my Model 70 .300 Win Mag. I went with the Nikon Monarch 5-20x44SF BDC and had it mounted with Leupold Dovetail Rings. The things is when I went to the gun store I had it mounted the first time they sold me some Weaver style rings. I asked if he had Leupold rings but he said Weaver Steel were good enough. I took them home and attempted to do the mounting myself but when I got to the part where the two bars with the points are supposed to line up, they didn't. There were no windage screws on Weaver bases so I did my best by loosening the screws and tightening down them again. That helped but I knew I was facing lapping and I had never done that before. So I was didn't want to go any further. In the meantime, I had ordered some Leupold online and they showed up. I figured I would just bring everything in to get mounted and save the hassle.

    The clerk takes my rifle, scope, and rings and brings it back to the gunsmith and 10-15 minutes later hands it back to me all mounted. The clerk even said it was boresighted. Now how in the heck could the gunsmith done all the things I watched in the proper way to mount a scope in that amount of time? Should I be concerned that there is some tension on my new scope, and if so how can I tell?

    It will be a week or so before I can test it at a range, bad cold that is messing with my breathing.



    [ame="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OZU94I/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00"]Amazon.com: Monarch Riflescope 5-20x44SF Matte BDC: Sports & Outdoors@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31BDx886JdL.@@AMEPARAM@@31BDx886JdL[/ame]
     
  2. bruce_ventura

    bruce_ventura Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe your scope was properly mounted by a gunsmith. A gunsmith would have checked the bases for alignment to each other and the rifle bore. Many gunsmiths don't lap the rings, but prefer instead to align the rings by shimming the bases. 15 min is not enough time to thoroughly check alignment, much less correct alignment problems.

    I've mounted lots of scopes using lots of different base and ring designs. I shim or bed the base(s) so that the rings are within 15 MOA of the centerline between the rings, and the centerline is within 15 MOA of the rifle bore. I use Kokopelli alignment bars for initial alignment, followed by alignment check using a boresight collimator and test scope in which the reticle is optically centered.

    I also lap the rings. Then I cover the lapped surfaces with 1 mil tape to prevent corrosion and protect the scope tube. All screws a tightened using a torque wrench. This process takes a lot of time but results in a stress-free scope that is boresight aligned to the rifle bore.

    You should ask the gunsmith what process he used on your rifle.
     

  3. FEENIX

    FEENIX Well-Known Member

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    Monster,

    Welcome to LRH and enjoy!

    I agree with bruce ventura and mount my scopes similarly. You can also use Burris Signature Zee rings (the ones with inserts) to avoid lapping and offsets for MOAs.

    I watched most gun stores mount and boresight scopes ... most are done by sight guesstimate - the peep and look-eyeball leveling method along with pre-calibrated torque hand. :rolleyes:

    Good luck and happy safe hunting/shooting.


    Bruce,

    I used to live in Oxnard and work in Ventura in the early 1980s.

    Ed
     
  4. monster

    monster Member

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    Thanks for the welcome and advice Feenix & Bruce,
    I've actually been reading this board for a bit longer than when I first joined. Whenever I would type a question, this site would come up in many of my searches, so I bookmarked it, would look in for a while, and decided to join. It is by far one of the most helpful forums around. I read too many other sites where big egos get in the way instead of discussion. Anyway, I joined

    I just read my post again and I wasn't clear. The Leupold rings that I purchased and the gunsmith eventually used were Dovetail, does that make it easier and faster? I have a friend who thinks that dovetail rings alleviate alignment problems and that they can only line up one way. I'm not totally convinced because I believe since there are two parts there is some room for error.

    I apologize for the ignorance here, I've only purchased hunting rifles before that had a scope already mounted, so this was never an issue, nor have I ever spent any money on a "hunting" scope. I guess I should have stuck with picatinny system and called it a day but that would have looked a bit odd probably.
     
  5. bruce_ventura

    bruce_ventura Well-Known Member

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    That's how I read your post. I assume you have standard dovetail rings rather than dual dovetail. The standard rings allow adjustment for windage errors between the bore and the centerline between the rings. If the bases are installed correctly, that reduces the internal adjustment in your scope just to get to zero. The rifle bore is usually not parallel to the centerline between the rings, so this is a nice feature.

    Both ring types allow horizontal alignment of the rings to each other. Neither type allows vertical alignment of the rings. That's where stress can originate in the scope.

    That's why I shim/bed the bases to get good vertical alignment, and then lap the rings to remove any stress.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2012
  6. bruce_ventura

    bruce_ventura Well-Known Member

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    Feenix,

    I see from your profile that you're livin' the dream out in God's country. Good on ya! Family ties and my job are keeping me here in Ventura. Nice town, but it happens to be in California.
     
  7. FEENIX

    FEENIX Well-Known Member

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    Monster,

    Some of rifles still sports Leupold rings and mounts for the same reason you described. Checkout this video link >>> Scopes - rings by Burris Optics
     
  8. FEENIX

    FEENIX Well-Known Member

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    Indeed I am! Hang in there, cheers!
     
  9. monster

    monster Member

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    Feenix,

    Thanks for that link. That's funny, for all these years, 25+, I've been using the phrase chasing the bull, but not for exactly the same meaning. It was something yelled in my ear by a Gunnery Sergeant as he was trying to throw me off my game. I got his meaning then and it has always stuck with me.

    Tomorrow I'm going up to the gun shop and asking the gunsmith about how he mounted my scope. This video makes something else clear to me. When I setup on my dining room table with the bipod, yeah it pisses my wife off, and look down the street, there are some flowers in a neighbor's yard that aren't clear. There is no way they shouldn't be. I swing the parallax knob all the way around without any help. With the same scope in Gander Mountain I can sharpen letters across the store. I'm concerned that the gunsmith has done something wrong.

    Thanks for all the help. I guess I won't know until I go to a range. There is another gunsmith I'm going to check with as well. Just for peace of mind.
     
  10. midnightmalloy

    midnightmalloy Well-Known Member

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    when you deal with gunsmiths you have to be very specific on what you want. If you just said "mount this scope with these rings" thats all he's going to do. the majority of people that have a scope mounted on a rifle are not lapping, and properly aligning the scope. Most people dont know, it wont affect them and they probably dont care. So here is what Im trying to say:
    1. Be EXACT with what you want the gunsmith to do
    2. if there is a question on how the smith is going to complete one of these actions then have them explain it
    3. Get a solid price quote for what you want
    4. if its something specific give them a picture of what you want (like aligning the rings with the tool or technique your looking for)

    when you get into trying to coordinate a full custom build then these things are very important. its just that if you walk into a normal smith and ask for a normal run of the mill service and your not specific then you will get the smith to do it as 95% of the hunters want it. fast easy and cheap

    If you look at how much it is to mount and boresight a scope on many different gunsmiths websites you will find very different prices. its that most are not doing it the same.

    Good luck.
     
  11. monster

    monster Member

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    You're right, this was my first time doing this and I "ASSUMED" that every time a gunsmith mounted one they went through the whole process that I had researched. What even convinced me prior to that was when I was looking at scopes at this particular shop a clerk there told me their gunsmith did a first-rate job at mounting scopes.

    One last thing I have to admit, this morning before I was got ready to ride over to the shop to ask the gunsmith about how he mounted my scope I took one more look. Things looked a bit better and then something dawned on me. My recent illness had some medications that I don't usually take. One was a steroid. I'm a diabetic and I think that has my vision a bit off. I"m going to give the guy the benefit of the doubt until I have a friend look down range with my scope.

    A couple of friends did find a gun club that has a 200 yd range close to our houses, so we're joining next week. I'll get to test it there for now. Can't wait until we finally get back to the NW! 2 more years...hopefully, I didn't want to be here beyond 2014.:rolleyes: