H & H Concentricity gage or Bersin or ???

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Aldon, Feb 20, 2010.

  1. Aldon

    Aldon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    718
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2009
    I am shopping for a good concentricity guage that allows me to correct small errors as well.

    Does anyone use the H & H concentricity gage? Concentricity Gauge

    How about the Bersin?

    http://www.centuryarms.com/bersin.pdf

    Does the other well known makers such as Sinclair allow the correction of small errors?

    Thanks
     
  2. Aldon

    Aldon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    718
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2009
    It looks like some of the information I wanted is on this thread. http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f28/case-bullet-run-out-how-big-deal-51973/

    It is more important to determine what is causing your runout so you do not need correction in which case, the Sinclair equipment seems to be everyones favorite, but I like the idea of tweaking the occasional round as well.

    So it brings me back to the discussion I started. What tool is best for minor run out correction.....?
     

  3. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,307
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2004
    Both of those look good and you might also look at the Hornady .They are very affordable.

    I have one and it will fit every thing but a 50 BMG and I have good luck correcting small
    errors in re loading and in factory ammo also.

    It can be set up for different types of measurements. I use mine to check the entire length
    of a cartrige for any inconsistencies.

    J E CUSTOM
     
  4. Aldon

    Aldon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    718
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2009
    Thanks JE, I will take a look at the Hornady set up.

    Affordable is a good trait as it looks like I am going to spend a lot of money with Sinclair:)
     
  5. elkaholic

    elkaholic Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,346
    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    I've heard the NECO is very good but not necessarily cheap:D...Rich
     
  6. Aldon

    Aldon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    718
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2009
    Does the NECO allow minor corrections?
     
  7. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,264
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    I obviously don't like ammo-benders.. But of the two this is what I see:

    -The Bersin purely shows seating errors, and or neck offset, while eliminating all else from measure. It's adjustment focuses on seating error resolution.
    -The H&H brings more total runout into the picture, but still masks most from measure. It's adjustment is the same as the Bersin, but would correct a touch of 'banana' from the case as well.

    So of the two, I would go H&H.
     
  8. Gene

    Gene Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,326
    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2007
    I know nothing about the H&H. I have a Holland concentricity guage which is much like the Sinclair.

    Bought a Bersin some years ago. It does measure concentricity, but they tout its ability to straighten bullets. The bullet can be moved somewhat after seated, but all you are doing is stressing the neck, so the next shot from that case is even more exaggerated. I sold lit.

    Cases come out of the sizer die lacking concentricity and that is where you need to start. You need to remove the expander plug if you use one. Either use bushing dies or have a custom die made for a good chamber fit and you can throw away the concentricity guages. Send Harrell's $70 and two fired cases, and they will make you a custom fit die.
     
  9. Aldon

    Aldon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    718
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2009
    Thanks guys!

    I like the idea of custom die.

    So the ideal would be to use the Sinclair gages to stay on top of the loading process and get good custom dies made to limit/eliminate the liability.

    Now I have to sell some stuff to afford all this without impacting my new build:)
     
  10. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,264
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    That's a solid plan Aldon
     
  11. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,483
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Folks have been trying different ways to bend bullets in rounds with too much runout for years. Every one of them involved pushiing on the bullet to straighten it up. Not a good idea in my opinion.

    My own tests have shown that such " bullet straightening" hurts accuracy. The bullet's been bent enough in the case neck that it's held with a different amount of tension. If you want to straighten the bullet, you had better straighten the neck, too. Bullets are aligned with the case neck axis when they're seated. I don't think that should change.

    I've taken 30 caliber ammo and put their necks in a .338 diameter bullet puller with the high point of runout marked on the case so it's where I can press on it. A little practice tells one how much the case has to be pushed to bend the neck just the right amount. Tighten the collet just enough to hold the loaded round case neck firmly, not tight enough to size the neck and bullet down.

    Shooting such "neck straightened" ammo shows only accuracy improvement. Use a bullet puller collet of the right size. If one's not available, well, maybe you could make one or fashion a collar to put over your case necks to fit a collet that does work.

    Use gelded full length sizing dies (no balls) and your case necks well be much straighter. Depending on how the case is referenced (rested?) at its contact points in the runout tool, the numbers will vary. There's no such thing as a perfectly round case (chamber either, for that matter). Especially when V-block types are used and the out-of-round condition at the case shoulder will corrupt any reading one gets.

    Tool and die experts dealing with metrology and precice measurements of mechanical things will tell you that the best way to support a cartridge to check it for bullet runout is in V-blocks touching the pressure ring and datum line about mid point in the case shoulder. These are the two points on the case that position it in the chamber. The extractor pushes the case sideways so the pressure ring stops against the chamber at the back end and the case shoulder centers in the chamber shoulder as it's pushed there first by the plunger style ejector and second by impact from the firing pin.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2010
  12. Hogan

    Hogan Member

    Messages:
    6
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Its probably right here in front of me, but I don't know where to check out and maybe buy an H & H Concentricity Gage online.

    Does anyone out there know?
     
  13. Aldon

    Aldon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    718
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2009
  14. Hogan

    Hogan Member

    Messages:
    6
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Thanks Aldon. I am having problems with flyers every once in a while [you never know when] [7mmWSM].
    I am hoping this will help or fix my problem