Gunwerks LR-1000

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by coyotezapper, May 22, 2010.

  1. coyotezapper

    coyotezapper Well-Known Member

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    Has anyone shot one of these rifles? I find it curious that they claim the action that they use is their own when it is a Stiller Predator?? And the stock looks like some hybrid McMillan, again not manufactured by them but they claim it also. I have personaly seen a couple of Greybull Precision rifles shoot and they are hammers. I know that they used to build the Best of The West rifles but it seems thay have parted ways. The Gunwerks basic rifle is $4500!!!! Ouch, seems alot when thay are a parts assembler. I know it is all trued/squared and fitted but how can they justify the price? I am not trying to start something here, I am just curious to how they shoot.
     
  2. Len Backus

    Len Backus Administrator Staff Member

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    Everything I have heard about how they shoot is very good.
     

  3. topbrass

    topbrass Well-Known Member

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    If they get parts from other manufacturers, it's called outsourcing. Nothing new here.

    Forget price and think value.

    Does the rifle accomplish everything you need?

    Personally there is no rifle in the world I would pay that much money for. I can accomplish the same thing with a rifle for less than $500. The scope however will cost about $2000. :D
     
  4. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    I haven't even looked at them. But don't forget that cost often includes more than checks are written for.
    I hold a couple guns that cost as much, and still took a great deal of my time & effort to meet goals with. Given this, I'm thinking I would pay more for guns that actually meet my goals -with zero time & effort.

    Just another persective...
     
  5. topbrass

    topbrass Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely!

    You are paying for them to do all the work for you, not only put the parts together, but work up the loads, match the scope and loads, and give you a complete turn-key system.

    It is the time and effort that I enjoy the most putting together a system which gives me far greater satisfaction with my accomplisment than just writing a check.
     
  6. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    Well, I just went & looked at it, and I fully concede that in this case it is a very bad deal.
    It appears to me that the $4500 is just for a stick figure rifle, and that anything of 'System' value adds to more than twice as much!!

    No, their clientele must consist of 1/2 Jarret's market.
    Basically, rich fools.....

    Now, if they actually put a system together that would do what they imply as 'turn-key' for $4500, then atleast there would be something to discuss intelligently.
     
  7. theodore

    theodore Well-Known Member

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    +1

    Yes, the scope with knowledge in ballistics is far more valuable than a gun in my opinion...... AND everyone is entitled to there own opinion. :D
     
  8. skipdavidson

    skipdavidson <strong>SPONSOR</strong>

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    I found the setup on this post to be interesting. I'm not sure that the premise is valid, in fact, its more of a plug for Greybull Precision. Regardless of what the main point was, I would like to put forth a little information.

    John makes a nice gun, and everytime I handle that Bell and Carlson stock, I think about how smart that idea was--the budget Mcmillan A series. Johns gun runs $6000 with a leupold VX3 LR, Remington Action and Bell and Carlson stock (add $800 for a custom action).

    The Gunwerks LR-1000 is $6500 with a custom action, stainless steel bottom metal (not factory Remington), Jewell trigger, and a very classy long range stock design that is built like a Mcmillan with molded in camo color and texture with the addition of a CNC machined bedding block, this includes all the break in, set up, and a Huskemaw Optics scope (we have Nightforce packages also).

    Lets look at the Mcmillan rifles. Base rifles are right at $5000. They outsource thier action. Basner rifles are $5500. They outsource thier action. A GAP Crusader with a Jewell trigger is about $4100. They outsource thier action. I'm not sure that you dont have to pay another 11% on the GAP (I tried to call and confirm, but got vmail). We can try to update if we get more info.

    One last point. We do offer a budget package. Basically the same deal as the Greybull Precision rifle, except we are buying HS Precision stocks at $265, instead of Bell and Carlson at $140. It is based on a Rem 700, and features the Huskemaw scope. The total package price is only $4000. Thats scope, breakin, set up--everything except we have you send in your Remington. So, if you buy a new SPS, add $550. So basically $4500 is your total cost for a complete shooting system.

    There is more to selling rifles than just screwing parts together, and our shop is more than just an assembly line. We do product design, both software and hardware. We dont use a $4000 dollar lathe, we use a $40,000 CNC lathe to ensure consistency and better surface finishes (imagine trying to thread on a manual machine at 1200 RPM!). Our stocks are inletted on our CNC mill, and finished in our shop. The bottom line is we have the capability to manufacture more parts in house, but we choose to use economies of scale and premier suppliers to get the best value and bang for the buck for our customers.

    We see many of those $500 rifles through our shop every year, and they are not the same thing as the products that are coming from any of the manufacturers I listed on this post.
     
  9. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    Your $265 stock is a very small portion of a $4500 'stick figure rifle' with only three parts in the remainder (trigger, action, barrel) and zero evidence of any performance!!
    The Jewel is $250
    Custom action ~$900
    Unknown barrel ~$350
    That's $1500 pre-labor, and you charge $3000 to bed the stock and finish the barrel(a $1,000 value tops). Your profit ~$2,000

    What do you provide for that profit?

    My opinion,, you should build and shoot these guns. Then post their actual capabilities -by serial number, and auction each off for it's true value. If your guns perform better than off the shelf Savages, then you'll make your profit, I'm sure.
    Until then, it's more market division than contribution on your part.
    This is just my opinion, you can of coarse charge whatever you want. I can ask for whatever I want.
     
  10. bigbuck

    bigbuck Well-Known Member

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    Mike I can see were your coming from but at the same time why hammer a man for trying to make money ? If you and I don't agree with these so called high prices then we are free to buy what we feel is a better bang for our buck . In reality people spend a lot more money than this without blinking an eye. Have you ever purchased a new vehicle ? We would probably fall over if we knew what they had in it .

    P.S. Skipdavidson you've handled being critisized very well and that in itself has shown that you have character .

    BigBuck
     
  11. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you BigBuck. Money is relative.
    I'm actually inviting Gunwerks to sell their product to us.
    To make the case for it..
    But I promise you overcharging precedence and 'our machines cost alot' won't sway an ever growing market of long range hunters from smart decisions.

    Think about it. We all know a Cooper cost~$1400, and we can drop a Mk4 or NXS on it for another $1500, and it's gonna shoot with another $1000 in dies, components, and load development.
    Long range guns are not an investment. They are not collector's items with any lasting pedigree.
    They are merely tools to an end.
     
  12. skipdavidson

    skipdavidson <strong>SPONSOR</strong>

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    It’s pretty easy to miss certain costs in materials and assembly. My illustration with other respected manufacturers is that the market price is $4000 to $6000 for this type of firearm.

    The following list represents typical cost using pricing straight off the internet. The stock install and other service items are listed with per item prices as you would pay ala carte from a gunsmith.

    Action $825
    Barrel $335
    Stock $803 (McMillan full install price)
    CNC Bedding Block $60
    Bottom Metal $350
    Screws, mag box, follower, spring $80
    Jewell Trigger $230
    Chambering $200 (bargain chambering price
    Assembly $50
    Cerakote $275 (common charge by gunsmiths)
    Excise Tax $491 (11%)
    Shipping Case $125

    I get $3825 total costs for this deal. Of course we don't pay to have the work done. We do it ourselves, and carry the cost of labor, materials, machines, building and other overhead. We have 7 employees currently, and I pay all my guys very well, so we also have administrative costs, customer service costs, etc. We also have advertising costs, and you would not believe how much money I have to pay for insurance!

    Do the math, we are not over priced--definitely not getting rich!

    DIY is an option, but even if your time is only worth $15/hr, you will invest heavy to get your package together. 1) Make sure you have a good gunsmith 2) Check out the chamber reamer specs 3) Buy the best barrel, that’s where it’s at.

    When comparing rifles, it is not enough to just look at accuracy. First shot behavior, fouling shot behavior, set up and break in costs--these are all subtle items that matter. Another item that is often overlooked is shootability. How easy is it to consistently shoot well with a certain firearm in different conditions and positions. Does POI change? Back on target quickly to spot your shot? Many people haven't experienced how much easier it is to shoot certain designs for long range (this is mostly stock design and weight/balance).

    Our budget system is a great example. The will almost shoot groups with the LR-1000, but the price is essentially $2000, you provide your Rem 700 action. We do an action true, new barrel, trigger, cerakote, and stock. Anyone that shows up here and has a chance to handle and shoot both units ALWAYS buys the more expensive rifle.
     
  13. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    That's far better information to consider. Thank you.
    So how well is a recent build performing?
    How did it group, or better yet(for a hunting rifle) what was it's cold bore accuracy -before shipping out to a customer? Did the customer know this before the purchase(informed decision)?
    In other words, what exactly did you provide, at what final cost to the customer?

    This isn't a badgering, but a sincere inquiry that I'm sure interests readers who wonder(like thread starter).
     
  14. topbrass

    topbrass Well-Known Member

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    Here is my latest build:

    http://webpages.charter.net/hotbrass/Savage270.jpg

    Stevens 200 LA .270 $199+tax at Academy Sports
    Stockey Tundra stock about $150 (I forget the cost)
    about $2 worth of epoxy bedding, my own
    long action screws $6
    2.5 lbs. trigger job, my own
    cheap simmons 44mag scope, had it in the closet, dont remember cost
    bipod from closet also

    So less than $500.

    Here is the results of yesterday with (gasp!) Monarch 150gr from Academy.

    http://webpages.charter.net/hotbrass/270.pdf

    Top target has a three shot group on the right. Moved bullet impact 1" left and shot one. Moved bullet impact 1" left again, shot one shot. Moved bullet impact right 2", one shot. Yes that group on the right has four shots. I also have a scan of the back side of the target. PDF files are full size so you can measure it yourself

    http://webpages.charter.net/hotbrass/270 back.pdf

    Will this work for a hunter?

    I also built a .308 and shot it yesterday too and it shot three groups .7", .75", and .79". But I shot it on paper targets and left the targets at the range. Also using Monarch 150gr ammo.

    http://webpages.charter.net/hotbrass/stevens.jpg

    Am I happy? Hell yes. I did it all myself and it didnt cost much.

    Now I need to work up some loads to try and match the cheap Monarch ammo. gun)