Gun build - Scope help PLEASE

so explain to this young guy why the 7mm mag has more energy at a 1000 yds than the 300 wm, yet you are recommending the 300 wm. (see edited post above). And since the 300 wm drops over 3 feet more than the 7mm at a 1000 yds, wouldn't you agree that there is a lot more room for error which could result in a miss, or worse....wounding a critter. See above post for ballistic comparsions. i agree that the 300 wm in not a bad choice, but it is certainly not the best.
Shooting factory loads you're not going to get higher energy from the 7 mag at those ranges.

Try moving up to the 200gr swift a-frame at 2850 mv and give us a recalculation.

When you compare equal weights of course you'll come put in favor of the 7 mag, but when you move to the 200's and heavier bullets in the 300 the equation changes completely.
 
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There are dang few factory loads that I'd reccomend shooting at a 1000 yds.
You and I aren't rookies starting out with a straight factory rifle and no reloading gear or experience either.

Remember we've got about six months to help this kid put a rig together on a tight budget, and get him enough practice to get to a competency level where he feels comfortable taking one of those shots on a once in a lifetime hunt.
 
You and I aren't rookies starting out with a straight factory rifle and no reloading gear or experience either.

Remember we've got about six months to help this kid put a rig together on a tight budget, and get him enough practice to get to a competency level where he feels comfortable taking one of those shots on a once in a lifetime hunt.
On that note I'd recommend he contact Conley precision cartridge for ammo and I'd say look seriously at the 200gr Swift A-Frame load he has there.

300 Winchester Magnum Ballistics

I started having them load my 7mm STW's about five years ago and couldn't be happier.
 
I personally don't think it's sound advice to reccomend to a newby to fling bullets at elk at 1000 yds with limited experience, a factory rifle, and factory ammo. But if were going to indulge him, the 7mm has a lot less room for error at that distance. And for clarification, my ballistic data is not favoring reloads or factory ammo. It's based on a 3000 fps velocity with the same weight of bullets.
 
I personally don't think it's sound advice to reccomend to a newby to fling bullets at elk at 1000 yds with limited experience, a factory rifle, and factory ammo. But if were going to indulge him, the 7mm has a lot less room for error at that distance. And for clarification, my ballistic data is not favoring reloads or factory ammo. It's based on a 3000 fps velocity with the same weight of bullets.
Perhaps you should read back through the thread at my posts to him.

This is the hunt he's going to do. This is what he wants to do and he has asked for help in getting him there.

Amongst other things I have strongly encouraged him to shorten the range to inside 600yds if at all possible.

I also pointed out to him that to get competent it will take lots of practice in varying condtions, taking good notes of his necessary corrections to become competent.

Of course you are going to get a results favoring the 7 mag over the 300 wm using identical bullett weights because the sectional density and advantage in BC to the 300 is not going to show up until you go to the heavier bullets.

Mind you 25 years ago I had to help a friend come up with a 7mm rem load his 11yo 80lbs son could shoot when he unexpectedly drew an elk tag in NM for the boy in NM.

He killed his buck at 375 paces with a single shot to the heart with a 120gr SP loaded down to 2800fps, with an old savage cut down to fit his LOP.

I've been shooting the 7 mag myself since 1972 so I'm well familiar with it.

This isn't about "my caliber is better than yours" or any other kind of ****ing contest, it's about trying to help a kid succeed.
 
Thanks for all the help everyone. I want to make it clear that I am not a beginner hunter. I have hunted since I was 10 and harvested many animaks. I am a beginner long range hunter. I have acess to a 1000 yd range and will shoot a lot before I hunt. Like I said last year I harvested a bull at 500 yards with a stock vanguard, remington corelokts 175 gr and a nikob bdc scope. I don't think I am a beginning shooter. But I know I'm a beginner long range shooter. I hjave already ordered the 300 win mag instead. How much more does it kick compaerd to 7mm
 
Thanks for all the help everyone. I want to make it clear that I am not a beginner hunter. I have hunted since I was 10 and harvested many animaks. I am a beginner long range hunter. I have acess to a 1000 yd range and will shoot a lot before I hunt. Like I said last year I harvested a bull at 500 yards with a stock vanguard, remington corelokts 175 gr and a nikob bdc scope. I don't think I am a beginning shooter. But I know I'm a beginner long range shooter. I hjave already ordered the 300 win mag instead. How much more does it kick compaerd to 7mm
Get a good muzzle brake put on it and neither will kick more than a 243.

I don't notice any real difference till I get up to the heavier bullets.

Without a good brake you won't enjoy shooting more than probably half a box of shells unless you are over 200lbs, and even then it gets pretty tough.

Here's a fun recoil calculator to play with though.

Recoil Calculator
 
THe gun comes with a muzzle break so for now that's what I will use. I'm sure it will helpt
 
I think you made the right choice by going with the 300 WM over the 7mm. I am not an experienced elk hunter by any means but of the two calibers you mentioned I would have went with the 300 too. May want to look at the 210 Bergers they have a good BC and enough weight to carry some good energy. You may still want a limit of a little less than 1,000yds though. For your original question about scopes, that is a pretty good deal on that Zeiss and they are great scopes. For $700 I think that one would be tough to beat. If you want to get $1000 or a little more look at the Mark 4 Leupold. I have the Zeiss 6.5-20x50 and the 8.5-25x50 Mark 4 and like them both very well. I don't think you could go wrong with either. As far as recoil if the gun has a brake on it then you will be fine. 300 WM isn't bad without a brake.
 
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Im a little confused by the statement that the 7 Rem Mag has more energy than the 300 Win mag, simply not true using the ideal bullets for each! The 300 can use quality hunting bullets at 200+ grains. The Bergers are good long range bullets but there are so many accounts of them being poor all around bullets, close and still moving at high velocity. Im a big 7 rem mag supporter and Im not saying that a 7 rem mag cant kill an elk at 1000, we have all seen the videos of it being done. But Ive also seen videos of elk being taken at over 900 with a 6.5-284. So because it can work does this make it ethical to do so? Not really in my opinion! We are hunting live animals and should ensure that we can relaible harvest them. I wonder how many animals were lost or wounded? And all these shots we see are perfect broadside and ideal conditions. So if you can say that My shots will only be over 300-400 yards then the berger is great. If you cant then your options go from 180 gr bullets down to 150-160gr. If you hunt like me where you are not sure but most are inside 300 ,but want the ability to reach out if it presents itself, then a better all around hunting bullet sould be used. For elk the 300 win mag is a much better choice. For deer sized game the 7 is great. Either way the savage longrange hunter , which comes with a muzzlebreak, and using 200 gr (my choice would be accubond if they shoot well) quality hunting bullets is a good choice. I like the Vortex viper for the value. Target turrets, repeatable adjustments in MOA, side paralex, 30mm tube for good adjustment range, Dead-hold or mildot reticle, lifetime warranty all for 399$ is just unbeatable.
 
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pyro

Not sure what you are confused about. If you don't believe the ballistics data I offered in my earlier post feel free to jump on any of the free online ballistic calulators and verify, or go one step further and verify in the field. There is a reason most of your F class and bench rest guys are switching to the 7mm offerings for 1000 yard work. It's because it offers superior ballistics. PM me your email and I'll send you the data I'm referencing. I have owned both calibers and have extensively tested both out to a 1000 yds on paper and on critters (lots of elk). Both are great calibers, but there is no denying the 7mm shoots flatter and will kill elk all day every day out to a 1000 yds. I'm taking my 7mm to AK this year for moose and grizzly and have no doubt it will get the job done. As for the bergers having poor performance, I have had more one shot kills with the berger vlds than any other bullet.
 
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pyro

Not sure what you are confused about. If you don't believe the ballistics data I offered in my earlier post feel free to jump on any of the free online ballistic calulators and verify, or go one step further and verify in the field. There is a reason most of your F class and bench rest guys are switching to the 7mm offerings for 1000 yard work. It's because it offers superior ballistics. PM me your email and I'll send you the data I'm referencing. I have owned both calibers and have extensively tested both out to a 1000 yds on paper and on critters (lots of elk). Both are great calibers, but there is no denying the 7mm shoots flatter and will kill elk all day every day out to a 1000 yds. I'm taking my 7mm to AK this year for moose and grizzly and have no doubt it will get the job done. As for the bergers having poor performance, I have had more one shot kills with the berger vlds than any other bullet.

Well I agree with you that the 7 offers better ballistics with less recoil but comparing apples to apples 7mm 180 vld at 2940 to .30 210 vld at 2950, the 7 does have better ballistics but the 300 still has better energy even if it is just 100 ft lbs. But like I said Im not convinced that berger is the best all around hunting bullet. So if you comapre reliable all around hunting bullets the 300 walks away with it. For this comparision I'll use the accubond and info taken from noslers website. For the 7 Rem mag using the 160 accubond at 3000 fps
yards velocity energy wind(in) path
600 2013.6 1440.2 23.5 -62.4
650 1941.0 1338.3 28.1 -78.5
700 1870.2 1242.3 33.2 -96.8
750 1801.0 1152.1 38.8 -117.7
800 1733.6 1067.8 44.9 -141.2
850 1668.2 988.6 51.7 -167.6
900 1604.9 914.9 59.0 -197.2
950 1543.7 846.5 67.0 -230.1
1000 1484.9 783.3 75.7 -266.7

The 300 Win mag using 200 gr accubonds at 2900 fps
yards velocity energy wind (in) path
600 2018.6 1809.2 21.9 -64.8
650 1952.9 1693.3 26.1 -81.2
700 1888.5 1583.6 30.8 -99.9
750 1825.6 1479.8 35.9 -121.1
800 1764.1 1381.8 41.5 -144.8
850 1704.1 1289.4 47.7 -171.4
900 1645.8 1202.7 54.3 -200.9
950 1589.2 1121.4 61.6 -233.7
1000 1534.4 1045.4 69.4 -269.8

The 300 has over 200 more ft lbs energy, less wind deflection, and only 3 more inches of drop. So I will say this using the bergers they are very close probably not much difference, edge maybe going to the 300 but using all around proven "hunting" bullets the 300 has a clear advantage
 
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