Groups size ? Is it over rated ?

Does competitive confidence to hold a benchrested/hot/fouled/sighted group together, help you with a single LR hunting shot?
You do recognize that hunting is not formated target shooting?

This is what IBS events would be like If I were Benchrest Supreme Commander for a year:
[The format]
#1 Every shooter CARRIES their entire shooting system(anything they prefer), downrange to set 5 targets at random ranges, & back.
#2 With all shooters back to 'the line' (literally a line on the ground) they get 1 shot each on their 5 targets, over a 1hr period.
#3 That gun(by serial#) is done for the day (no tag teaming guns).
#4 The targets are collected, measured center of hole to center of bullseye, and only the furthest shot from center, in MOA, counts for record.
[That's one relay, with few format rules, on top of range safety rules]
#5 Records are kept and apply toward qualification for major events. If you don't qualify, you don't get in the big bucks tournaments. If in a season your accuracy aggregate drops below the cut, you lose your qualification.

With this, competitors would be exposed to the chasm between hunting accuracy and benchrest group shooting. Then I'll take my golden parachute options & retire, leaving IBS as a sport rather than a spectacle(hey, all supreme commanders do it, so I must deserve it).
If this format stuck around, there would soon be great advancements in shooting as a direct result (rather than what we have today being what we had 50yrs ago).
And eventually IBS would actually be a professional sport, sponsored by those providing needed advancements.

Ok, utopian notion over,,
 
Does competitive confidence to hold a benchrested/hot/fouled/sighted group together, help you with a single LR hunting shot?
,


Benchrest shooting has little to do with hunting. I consider it more a form of proof testing rifles and ammo for accuracy. It does take a lot of care and skill, most of which isn't applicable to hunting.

Have you tried NRA rifle silhouette shooting? It's the closest to hunting of the various sanctioned sports I'm aware of . There are still major differences.. The Steel Target, Rifle Shooting Sport of NRA Rifle Silhouette

The only real test of hunting skills is hunting. Like making love or being in combat, simulating the necessary skills in formal competition would be ridiculous and disgusting.
.
 
Mike - I think it is unlikely that the IBS, of which I am also a member, would endorse your rules. Competitive benchrest embraces both equipment and shooter proficiency. One shot is not singularly comparative. I do believe some rule changes are in order, but there is no need for a "Supreme Commander" to dictate the format. Sorry, Gene
 
Does competitive confidence to hold a benchrested/hot/fouled/sighted group together, help you with a single LR hunting shot?
You do recognize that hunting is not formated target shooting?

Obviously the statement is quite true and I never confounded them. My point being was simple, I just used competitive shooting as a quick example. It really applies to any aspect of shooting or for the sake of conversation anything you do.
If you have confidence in your gun and loads and all mental preparation is intact then you're going to accomplish more.
Everybody misses shots once in a while, and when I do I'd like to think it wasn't the guns fault, because if it was then you would attempt to correct something that didn't cause the problem.

Dustin
 
Doubt it as well but can say that every single thing I have learned shooting on the line has made me a better shot in the field.

I agree fully. Several years ago I started competing in Egg Shoots which at first seemed kind of hokey. Try hitting 15 eggs with 15 shots at 300 yards with any rifle in the wind and you get a very different perspective. As in hunting, you have no paper to judge your miss. I compete in the hunting class using rifles that have the same characteristics as the rifles I use for LR, many times the same rifle. Your rifle had better produce a group at least the size of an egg at the range your shooting at or you have no chance at all of placing. At 300 yards that is sub .5 moa. For me, this sport has done more to improving my reloading, shooting, and wind doping skills than anything else I have ever done in the way of practice and has made me a much better LR hunter.
 
Well Greyfox, I can understand how preparing for competition makes you better with THAT format. That, being a fixed shooting gallery.
But it's my contention that it's not really relevant to actual hunting.

Step back and review all that is completely different between hunting and your egg shoots(15shts at exactly 300yds, off the same rest). Be honest with yourself.
Do you carry that equipment in the field?
Can you produce .5moa of accuracy under other conditions, distances, cold barrel, field rest(as carried)?
Is your hunting system solid (to produce on the spot ballistic solutions dialed or held off)?
Does .5moa grouping at 300 even matter for a single 465yd shot? Or a 615yd shot 10mins later? and then a 180yd shot 30min later? If you just discovered these 3 ranges, and shot them round robin a couple times, would you still produce .5moa of accuracy?

If so, that's great and I respect it.
IMO, a far better accomplishment than fixed gallery shooting, and just the kind of stuff we should be talking about on a LR Hunting forum.
 
I agree with Mikecr to some extent. Some rifles are capable of putting the CBS in the group with a pre-fouled barrel, others are not.

I test this at 600 yards behind the house. I often shoot in the evening get the barrel warmed up and fouled, let the gun sit out and take a CBS in the am. Then follow it up with another 3 shots after locating the CBS on the target.

What I do disagree with is that formal shooting comps. don't help a LRH.
I have shot BR once, agreed not much there, but the first try at anything reveals little so I won't rule it out.
I do shoot f-class and I have shot a LR/tac match. I think both can have a valuable end result. I'm not going to argue how or why, unless you have shot at least 3-4 matches, and learned somthing. Some will say it is just chasing your spotter, but those guys leave points on the table that a good wind reader will capitalize on.
 
Well Greyfox, I can understand how preparing for competition makes you better with THAT format. That, being a fixed shooting gallery.
But it's my contention that it's not really relevant to actual hunting.

Step back and review all that is completely different between hunting and your egg shoots(15shts at exactly 300yds, off the same rest). Be honest with yourself.
Do you carry that equipment in the field?
Can you produce .5moa of accuracy under other conditions, distances, cold barrel, field rest(as carried)?
Is your hunting system solid (to produce on the spot ballistic solutions dialed or held off)?
Does .5moa grouping at 300 even matter for a single 465yd shot? Or a 615yd shot 10mins later? and then a 180yd shot 30min later? If you just discovered these 3 ranges, and shot them round robin a couple times, would you still produce .5moa of accuracy

If so, that's great and I respect it.
IMO, a far better accomplishment than fixed gallery shooting, and just the kind of stuff we should be talking about on a LR Hunting forum.

I think your hung up on the idea that people believe these sports are a substitute for the skills necessary for successful long range hunting. Obviously it's not the same and I don't think I claimed it to be. Did say it helps refine the basic skills used to be a successful long range hunter. To be frank, the LRH aspects of accuracy at variable ranges while important, are pretty straight forward given you can determine the range and have done your homework with your set-up. The single most difficult variable discussed on this site is accurate wind doping. I don't know if you have ever participated in an egg shoot, but you can rest assured that to be successful you have to learn how to do it very well or you won't place. This aspect will absolutely improve your LRH skills.
 
Well Greyfox, IMO, a far better accomplishment than fixed gallery shooting, and just the kind of stuff we should be talking about on a LR Hunting forum.

Other major differences in hunting hunting compared to most competition:

Target distance must always be measured (at least estimated).
Targets aren't of exactly know size. Range measurement is more difficult.
Targets aren't xsposed for fixed amounts of time.
Shooting positions are likely to be difficult.
Target contrast and lighting can make targets difficult to see.
There are no convenint wind flags with known characteristics. (plants and leaves may help but can't be relied on).
Targets can move after the shot is fired.
Terminal energy is impotant, not just accuracy.
Uphiill/downhill shots are more common.
Targets to avoid may be encountered (protected species, humans, etc).

Hunting does not required you be the most accurate shot in the game to be successful.
You only need to be a sufficently good shot. In hunting you're allowed to move closer to the target to achieve a more reliable shot. That's generally not allowed in competition.
 
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