Gripping the stock/barrel while shooting?

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by Rhino Hunter, Sep 19, 2010.

  1. Rhino Hunter

    Rhino Hunter Well-Known Member

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    Okay...a newby question here.

    Today at the range, I first put a fouling shot through my .300 Winnie.

    Then I shot a three while holding the front portion of the stock/barrel with my left hand. I was on a bench with the gun resting on sand bags at the front and rear.

    I let the gun cool for about 10 minutes.

    Then I shot a three more with the front of the gun just resting on the sandbags with my left hand under the gun holding the rear sandbags.

    The result...the second group was about 2-1/2" higher, and about 1/3 of the size as the first group.

    I switched ammo between the first group and the second group.

    Do you think the different grip on the gun or the different ammo caused the substantial change in POI?

    (I know, I know, go shoot it some more to find out.) I'm mostly curious to hear what you all think about the different grip on the gun will do.

    Thanx in advance.

    RH
     
  2. the444shooter

    the444shooter Well-Known Member

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    I would say a combination of both--but about a 95%/5% combo. Or even a 99%/1%. In my experience, most differences in group sizes in a situation like you describe comes from using different bullets/ammo. I have even found there to be significant changes in group sizes by shooting a bullet with a different jacket makeup than what the barrel has been fouled with. For example, when trying to sight in my 7.82 Warbird, I shot 165gr Nosler Ballistic Tips to zero the rifle, and when I switched to Barnes XLC bullets, the shots went wild. I then cleaned my barrel thoroughly, and tried again with the XLCs--VOILA! 1/2" groups! One thing I always make sure of is to keep things consistent. That way you can remove variables one at a time until you deduce the problem. Clean your barrel down to the metal, and go back and shoot with the bullets you intend to use on a consistent basis.

    One quick guess--did you buy a box of cheap ammo to zero the scope and a box of the "premium" to use in the field? I only ask because I've been guilty of doing that in the past, and it ended up causing more confusion and poor groups.

    CONSISTENCY + PATIENCE = SUCCESS.
     

  3. Rhino Hunter

    Rhino Hunter Well-Known Member

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    Good question about the cheap ammo...but no. I am a strong believer that you should not save pennies on your ammo...after all...it's then only thing that actually ends up touching your intended target. I was just trying two different brands of ammo to see how they grouped in my gun.

    The ammo that created the larger 3-shot group (1-1/2") was less money though. It was the Hornady Superformance 180 grain SST's. The much tighter 3-shot group (7/16") was the Federal Preimium 180 Accubond.

    I think I like (or more 'accurately'-my gun likes) the Federal Premiums.

    RH
     
  4. Bravo 4

    Bravo 4 Well-Known Member

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    Definately the change in ammo. Sounds like your rifle likes the Federal load. You had basically the same rest on both, sand bags in the front and rear. The only thing you changed was the position of your non-firing hand. Is that correct?
    I know too man people who think they can be zeroed with one round and be good for another. Sometimes yes, but more then likely NO.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2010
  5. Rhino Hunter

    Rhino Hunter Well-Known Member

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    Yes that is correct...only changed position of my non-trigger hand...and the ammo of course. But to change the POI vertically by around 2-1/2" @ 100 yards seems almost hard to believe.

    RH
     
  6. Bravo 4

    Bravo 4 Well-Known Member

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    I have seen rifles change (slightly) thier POI when changing from one rest to another. I have also seen rifles change POI by a foot at 100yards from changing loads and some by several moa just by switching primers. The only way you will know is to go shoot.
     
  7. jeff 300

    jeff 300 Well-Known Member

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    most likely the AMMO
     
  8. Limbic

    Limbic Well-Known Member

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    I can tell when I need to hold my gun on the forend because of the muzzle flip and torque in the recoil.

    I'd bet dollars to donuts that your problem is with the ammo.
     
  9. Don Ward

    Don Ward Well-Known Member

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    A 2.5" change in POI with different loads is no surprise and probably the reason. That said, anything touching the barrel can change things.
     
  10. Rhino Hunter

    Rhino Hunter Well-Known Member

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    Well the general consensus sounds like the change in ammo changed the POI.

    Interesting...I never would have guessed it would change it by that much.

    Learned something today I guess.

    Thanx again for your posts.

    RH
     
  11. jeff 300

    jeff 300 Well-Known Member

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    I saw a friends 308 change big time with dif ammo. We where shooting it a month ago and he had 8 dif boxes of ammo he was trying to fined the best ammo for that rifle. we shot two dif targets but the same kind and he had groups all of the place when we where done. we shot at the center of the targets every time. and the groups move on every box of ammo some more than others but they moved.