Great factory accuracy guarantee!!! or not...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by abinok, Jul 19, 2006.

  1. abinok

    abinok Writers Guild

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    Well, I just got off the phone with a customer service rep from a reasonably well known domestic rifle maker. After relating my tale of shotgun pattern like groups from a 26" heavy barreled 243, she proudly informed me " Our rifles are guaranteed to shoot two and a half inches or better at 100 yards."
    Maybe ive been spoiled lately with my experences with factory rifles, but the idea that an american company would release a rifle onto the market, with its blessing, that would shoot no better than 2.5 MOA, and be so arragant as to stamp the word VARMINT, and an adjactive that implies that it is the best directly on the reciever is sad.

    No, wait... its freaking depressing!

    Ill hold of on saying too much more untill I get the rifle back from them in a week or so ( that was her claim), but with factory loads, this rig shot between 5 and 7 moa with everything I could feed it, and I could only coax 1.9 out of it EVER with my handlaods. Average ran just over 2"

    Anybody else heard of an accuracy guarantee as liberal as this before?
     
  2. Mysticplayer

    Mysticplayer Writers Guild

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    Yip, Barnes did an article through Shooting Times a few years back. Their QC standard was 1.5 MOA.

    I am sure that has improved greatly over the years but....

    Now you have brands like the Weatherby Vanguard where they test shoot them at the factory, pick out the good ones, call them SUB MOA, charge twice as much but still ship the other rifles.

    Makes you want to run out and buy a basic Vanguard doesn't it????

    Me, I will stick to the Savage/Stevens. A bit of work and they shoot sub MOA. What more can I ask for in a factory rifle that actually has a decent trigger and now a super dmag system.

    Jerry
     

  3. deerkiller

    deerkiller Well-Known Member

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    What are the odds abinok is dealing with a Savage rifle?

    DK
     
  4. bailey1474

    bailey1474 <strong>SPONSOR</strong>

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    I'd bet the rifle came in a green box!! My dad had this issue many years back. 2.5" is what they told him!!
     
  5. abinok

    abinok Writers Guild

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    none actually. Not a savage/stevens product. I may be looking for a barrel for my savage soon though... since ive got so much stuff wrapped up in the caliber now.
     
  6. abinok

    abinok Writers Guild

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I'd bet the rifle came in a green box!! My dad had this issue many years back. 2.5" is what they told him!!

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Nope brown. Remington claims 2.5? that would explain a lot of the more recent production rifles /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    Im so frustrated with this rifle you wouldn't believe it... ive tried 5 bullets, over 4 primers, and 4 powders in addition to 4 types of factory stuff. On the best loads ive even tried altering neck tension from .0005 up to .004" with little luck. Round count is now just over 200 without anything even approaching moa.
    Im really... really hopeing that this one is a lemon, and thats why id rather not mention the brand... but the response of 2.5moa being good to go is not encouraging!
     
  7. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    All music to a custom rifle builders ears!!!

    Keep it up big rifle companies!!!

    5 to 7 moa at 100 yards, did you check to make sure the bore was even rifled? I have heard of a Marlin 17 HMR that was shipped from the factory without even having the bore rifled!!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  8. abinok

    abinok Writers Guild

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    yep, it had all the approprate twisty stuff in there... the throat is so long I can only reach it with bullets that are so heavy (read long) that the twist won't stabalize them
     
  9. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

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    I undertand you didn't ask for advice but just wanted to describe a real piece of junk. Nonetheless you might try the lightest bullets available in the caliber with a flat base and make sure the load is light (low pressure). Also switch to cool primers to slwo down ignition. This trick worked on the chaepest bolt actioon rifle ever sold. For the first time in its life I got sub MOA groups. Now why anybody wants to shoot a 40 gr bullet at 3200 fps out of a 225 Win when they have a 17 rem going 3850 under 0.5MOA is a different subject. Basic idea is to take stress off of the action by light bullets and light loads. It pretty much takes a worthless bad shooting gun and makes it into a worthless good shooting gun.
     
  10. abinok

    abinok Writers Guild

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    I tried 55gr noslers over varget (ccibr), H414(cci200, and fed215mag) and N135 (ccibr and fed210) all to no avail. the h414 with federal mag primers shot best of those. I loaded both the varget and H414 light enough to smoke the shoulder, the 414 sucked at anything under top loads and the varget didn't make any differance... it sucked either way. Now, regaurdless, suck is suck, and better is relative when even better is in the 2" area. The best performer was 414 with speer 70gr moly tnts over fed215s... but again... 1.9 isn't even remotely reasonable for a varmint gun. I figure you could be confidentwith headshots on pdogs at 40yds of so.

    I seriously considered sending it back initially, but after a while its kinda like... well... this one time I was frameing a wall in the barn, and the day had gone great. I was flying throught the job. Then on literally the last nail of the day I managed to smash the heck out of my thumb, and bend the nail. After I finished jumping up and down, I decided that nail was going into that board weather it liked it or not! I know it took several tweaks to straighten out, and several more bends, and straightings (if thats a word) along the way, but that nail is still in the north wall of our barn. Somewhere around the 4th ladder I shot with this gun, I decided I was going to make it shoot dadgumit!! WEll.. turns out not. I guess I could get the sledgehammer out of the garrage and make a good tomato stake out of it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    Im still open to ideas I suppose, but the time for pondering has ended in terms of handloading. Either it will come back and shoot well to start, or ill find a more suitable use for it. A lamp maybe?
     
  11. HoytemanPA

    HoytemanPA Well-Known Member

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    My dad got a new Savage 12BVSS 243 last week. I bedded the rifle from the lug to the mag cutout, bedded the Farrel base, cleaned, JB'd the bore, and mounted a 8.5-25 LeoLRT on it. Then he did a one shot and clean breakin procedure for ten rounds, bore is smoothing up but needs a little more JB treatment. 2 shots at 25 for sightin, a three shot at 100 under 3/4, adjusted scope next three touching and last two touching about 1/2 inch above the other 3. This is with complete cleaning happening after each shot.
    It shows promise. Load was a case full of old 4831 he wants to burn up, 75 grain bullets I think, loaded in new bulk win brass that was not resized but was trimmed and chamfered, bullets seated in lands.

    Very similar experience with my 25-06 112BVSS. The last time I aimed at 100yd paper with it, it put the last six shots in the same oval hole. Now it is used to kill woodchucks, and it does that real well near or far.

    Personally I'd have it rebarreled, send the original 5-7moa targets taped to the barrel along with a target from the new barrel, back to the company and tell them to stick it up,,,,,and I would probably include a Savage brochure and a note to call them if they had any questions......

    HPA
     
  12. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

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    I'm prettye sure you have already done this but check your crown , a small nick in the crown will produce groups like this.

    And if it is a Savage , pull the barrel and borrow sombody eleses that shoots and see what happens , if it straiten's out then you klnow the problem is from a bad barrel if it presist then you know its in the action.

    If I had a barrel here I mail it to ya. I personaly have never seen a Savage that was this bad but thats not saying their not out their.

    but check you basics first , loose bases , bad scope , loose barrel , bad crown , poorly cut throat , bad scope , I got a gun back from having it rebarreld one time buy a smith thats name is common in the LR world and it would not group any better than 4" at 100yds , I had mounted a brand new out of the box Leupold scope on it so "it coulden't have been the scope" wrong the scope was bad , the smith asked me to try another so I did and the first three out of the barrel went under 1/2" with a load from the book.
     
  13. abinok

    abinok Writers Guild

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    The crown looks good... its a recessed target style crown, no dings or scratches at all. cosmettically, Ican't find anything wrong with it. Its not a savage product as I mentioned above... but if it does not come back with a dramatic improvement, it will certanly be replaced by one.
     
  14. sambo3006

    sambo3006 Well-Known Member

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    I have a 700 LSS 30-06 that would do no better than 2" with any load. It was then pillar bedded and floated and later cryo'd and still no better. According to Remington, that was just fine. I rebarreled to a Shilen match #5 taper 30-06AI and it now shoots 1/2". I usually have very good luck with Remington barrels. You get a lemon every once in a while. I feel your pain, man.
    I would sell the gun and show some groups from the best loads (being honest in mentioning the less than stellar accuracy)--some guys don't care since they are ready to hunt if they hit a 5 gallon bucket at 50 yds.
    Alternatively, bite the bullet and send it off to one of the smiths here on LRH to have it worked over.
    Good luck, Sam