Good Scope Mounting Tools

Discussion in 'Long Range Scopes and Other Optics' started by Horsemen, Oct 17, 2009.

  1. Horsemen

    Horsemen Active Member

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    I'm going to invest in some more tools for this Hobie. The Topic today is scope tools. I have the weaver level level and other stuff that really just gets a person by.The level level is a POS. I use my small machinist level now, its much more accurate. But its time to invest in some good alignment and lapping tools. The two I have narrowed down to are the Sinclair set and the Kopentelli sets. I'm leaning more to the Kopentelli sets. Thoughts any one.

    Regards : Mike
     
  2. woods

    woods Well-Known Member

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    I agree the level-level-level bubbles are not much good. It is hard to find surfaces that they will be verifiably level on

    [​IMG]

    turrets could be off from the factory, action rails could be a little off and the bubbles may not be level.

    I use this tool, the EXD ENGINEERING : EXD ENGINEERING VERTICAL RETICLE INSTRUMENT - World's Largest Supplier of Firearm Accessories, Gun Parts and Gunsmithing Tools

    which you put on the scope barrel and rifle barrel

    [​IMG]

    to align them while you have your gun in a vise, when the bubble is level the rifle is UNCANTED. Then rotate your scope to align the reticles with a distant vertical or horizontal object and lock it down. I use a 4' level on a fence out the door about 30 yds out.

    As far as alignment of the bases and rings, I have a 1" and 30mm Wheeler Engineering Scope Ring Alignment and Lapping Combo Kit 1" and 30mm - MidwayUSA

    which are very useful when you mount dovetail rings or the rings with the windage adjustment screws. For the more fixed type like Weavers or Talleys they will only tell you if you have a problem, then you could lap the rings or order offset rings for misaligned base screw holes.

    I have found the EXD indispensable for scope mounting and usually put an anti-cant device on the scope at the time I am aligning the scope and barrel and leveling the reticle. If I ever move the scope it is easy to just level the scope to the anti-cant device. It is also helpfull for long range shooting.
     

  3. phorwath

    phorwath Well-Known Member

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    That EXD anti-cant tool looks pretty nifty. Thanks for sharing that information.
     
  4. Horsemen

    Horsemen Active Member

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    The EXD just went on my list! That tool when you think how it is used will take all the guess work out of knowing weather you vertical alignment is on or off. What a simple idea!lightbulb
     
  5. gunner69

    gunner69 Well-Known Member

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    Don't bother with that tool. It doesn't true the action level and vertical crosshairs should only be plumbed to gravity as the direct opposing force of your bullet travel. Any can't or misalignment ie if your vertical crosshair is aligned on a canted action will produce issues at long range. Big issues. Many guys think they have a bad rifle or whatever. 90% of the time it is imperceptible cant error in scope mounting.
     
  6. woods

    woods Well-Known Member

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    While this is an OLD thread, your post doesn't explain much. The EXD aligns the centerline of the bore and the centerline of the scope in a vertical plane verified by the bubble which is gravity oriented. It does not align the ACTION as that may or may not be 100% aligned with the bore.

    The previous post also details to align the vertical or horizontal reticles with a gravity oriented object, in my case a 4' level on a distant fence but I also mentioned a distant vertical or horizontal object, could be the edge of a building, suspended stringline with heavy object at bottom, etc etc. IF you only align the reticle with the objects without taking the cant out of the rifle AND installing an anti-cant device (also mentioned), then you may well be susceptible to inducing cant when in the field or at the bench.

    Perhaps a more detailed and step by step explanation from you would be helpful
     
  7. phorwath

    phorwath Well-Known Member

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    I've purchased the EXD tool and used as described, it will ensure the bore, the scope, as well as the reticle in the scope are all aligned in the same plane, and a plane plumb with the earth's gravitational field.

    You've overlooked the step where the vertical crosshair is plumbed to a 4' level, while the EXD tool is employed to confirm that the bore and scope are also held in vertical alignment with gravity using the bubble level provided on the EXD tool. I use a plumb bob rather than a 4' level for purposes of rotating the vertical crosshair plumb with gravitational force, prior to tightening the scope rings.
     
  8. bruce_ventura

    bruce_ventura Well-Known Member

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    I developed a similar tool that is sold by HighPowerOptics. The Reticle Alignment Tool performs the same function as the EXD tool, and it includes a very accurate spirit level for leveling the scope turret axis. Plus it sells for a lot less ($26).
    Reticle Alignment Tool
     

    Attached Files:

  9. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

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    Make sure to get a Wheeler FAT Wrench. Also, get T10 and T15 Xcelite drivers. They will come in very handy.
     
  10. gunner69

    gunner69 Well-Known Member

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    Cool tool but again not precise enough for ultra long range. The rifle is only level when the bolt raceways are are level and I mean less than .01 MOA off. Essentially zero cant. Once this is proven then the the vertical crosshair must be aligned with gravity only. This is best done with a plumb line at least 70' from the bore end. Otherwise shooters end up putting in all kinds of unnecessary windage and elevation at long range.
     
  11. phorwath

    phorwath Well-Known Member

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    If a scope is mounted directly above the bore gravitational wise, is mounted parallel to the bore left-right wise, the vertical scope reticle is then rotated to run parallel with a plum bob at 50 yards distance, and I then mark an anti-cant level to ensure the rifle is held in this same position when firing in the field - a position such that the vertical reticle is in alignment with the earth's gravitational vector/force - then I don't care which direction the bolt raceways are positioned. I submit that they could be rotated 1 or 90 degrees from level. That would only mean that the bolt handle would interfere with the scope, or the stock. The position of the bolt raceways would be immaterial, and have no affect on the left to right, or right to left, cant-caused drift of the bullet whatsoever.

    Any engineers or physicists on this Forum that see a flaw in this position, please correct this and explain the error in it, for my benefit.
     
  12. gunner69

    gunner69 Well-Known Member

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    If all you want to do is confirm vertical crosshair than the plumb line confirms this perfectly and can be done no matter how canted the rifle is below it. But what long range shooters want is this crosshair alignment with gravity and the rifle to be equally aligned on opposing planes. This way when a shooter acquires a target, cant errors cannot be attributed to the rifle ie action cant or scope cant - either cause the same issues when trying to take a level shot at a target. Errors of rifle/scope cant then are identifiable to the shooter vs. the rig and can be corrected and are easily identifiable. But yes anyone could theoretically align vertical crosshairs on the target level while having a rifle below 90 degrees twisted. It would be hard as hell but possible.
     
  13. gunner69

    gunner69 Well-Known Member

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    Don't get me wrong though - yours is a nice tool worth the money and there are other ones that work reasonably well to a point. For ultra long range shooting which is what this forum is primarily dedicated to, a more precise method is required. One could be level with the rifle in the field only to have then introduced the opposite scope cant to the equation. Seems strange to invest $1-$3000 on a scope and another $3-$5000 on a custom rifle and precision rings/bases etc. only to have a undetectable 2-10 MOA rifle scope missalignment causing you grief. Many guys never detect these issues and spend lots of time and money burning up barrels because they attribute long range issues to load development issues etc. Load developement is critical of course but many times shooters chase other problems like those mention in this discussion with load development etc.
     
  14. woods

    woods Well-Known Member

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    Perfectly said and all the boxes checked

    1. Scope centerline and bore centerline aligned vertically
    2. Reticle adjusted to distant horizontal or vertical object
    3. Anti-cant device installed to duplicate at bench or in field

    gunner, first you say "don't bother with that tool" and now you say "your's is a nice tool worth the money". Have you finally begun to understand how the tool is used?

    And you have YET to explain or describe YOUR method, only redefine the problem several times (which we all have known from the beginning)

    So please explain to us "a more precise method is required". And we all also know about the field method of cranking elevation and looking for vertical POI's, but we are talking about a method for MOUNTING a scope