good action for long range

Discussion in 'The Basics, Starting Out' started by crediger, Nov 24, 2006.

  1. crediger

    crediger Member

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    Hi I'm new to this long range stuff (my longest shot was out to about 500 yards) and am wondering what the best action for long range would be(browning, wby, remington)? All i have used are hunting rifles and am interested in reaching out farther than 500 yds... i'm considering getting a custom built and am trying to find some suggestions...
     
  2. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    If you want to use a factory receiver, look no farther then a Rem 700. There are others that work and will work well but you did not list any that make my short list.

    Before I get hammered for not saying the Browning and Wby will make great long range rifles, this opinionis from my experience building rifles on most factory receivers and there is a reason why the Rem 700 is far and away the most popular receiver to use.

    If you want to use a custom receiver, look at the Lawton, BAT and Nesika receivers. All are top notch and its a personal preference thing to pick one over the others from what I see on paper down range.

    Kirby Allen(50)
     

  3. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    I don't think there's a better action than a Winchester Model 70. They ain't popular cause of all the hype about the Remington 700 ones out there. But well-informed, knowledgable people who want reliability, usability and accuracy know the Winchesters out perform the others.

    It doesn't take much work to true a Model 70 receiver; square the face with the barrel threads, lap the lugs to full contact, then square the bolt face with the barrel threads. Sometimes the magazine follower will need a little wider 45 degree flat on its rib if cartridges using a .30-06 size case is used. Doing any more than this is a waste of time and money.
     
  4. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    You can buy a Lawton action for $695 that is much better and cheaper than a "trued, blue printed, lugs lapped, firing pins and springs" etc Rem/Winchester or any other factory action. Lawton has a Rem footprint 1.350" and 1.450" diameter actions in moly or SS, single/dual port, extended bolt handle, right or left handed and Rem bottom metal and triggers fit. His 1.650" action is $795 and will work with any caliber you want to use. A used Rem trigger is under $30 and used bottom metal is available for under $50 and all fit the Lawtons.

    It is economically "challenged" anymore to buy an action and pay someone all the money "fixing" it when for less money you can get a top notch custom action (out of the box) that beats any "fixed up" factory action day in day out. Plus at the end of the day, the Rem/Win action is not worth what you spent the moment you walk out of the gunsmiths shop. That is an undisputable fact. Now if you have the action already and do your own work, then another story.

    BATs start at around $1000 and same for Nesika. Go with the Lawton for what you want or the Predator from Stiller.

    Sorry, but the thought that any factory action is better is definetly "old school" thinking when nothing else was available. Different game today with different rules and winning equipment reports show it in every discipline.

    BH
     
  5. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

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    I agree with BountyHunter with "wasting" money on a factory action.
    I just had a Rem 700 SA built up , with an oversized bolt from PTG , complete blueprinting of the action and barrel installed . If I had bought the action and payed the $400 range for the action work I'd be well over the cost of the Lawton. I plan to use the Greg Tannel's firing pin assembly and a Rifle Basix trigger.
    I'm sure that I would never be able to recoupe the cost if I tried to sell it.
    My next gun will more than likly be built of one of the Lawton actions.
     
  6. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Different game today with different rules and winning equipment reports show it in every discipline.

    [/ QUOTE ]What's different in the "game" of finding out what action works best. All one has to do is to use them and test them. Shoot a rifle built on one and it's easy to find out which one can shoot the smallest test groups. But you better shoot a lot more than 3 to 5 shots per test group else you'll be fooled as to which one is best accuracy wise. Use what ever position or rest you do the best with.

    There are no rules in the above process. So there are no rules that have changed. If you think there are rules, please post all of them so everyone will see the standards to compare accuracy you think are correct. Besides, rules govern how well people shoot, not rifles. Rifle's can't read so they're not affected by rules.

    If you're thinking that benchrest rifles are the most accurate ones around, then you've got a lot of stuff to learn and understand. I think you can learn and understand, if you want to.
     
  7. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    Bart

    No one (OK a few old die hards) is building competitive guns for any discipline anymore on Model 70 actions as the FIRST choice. Everyone is going the custom route. Tubbs 2k, Barnards, Kelby, etc and that is in Highpower. Now why is that, IF the Model 70 is the most accurate action in the world?

    The model 70 is a good action and was easy to get to shoot good in its day, however, you never see one on the line anymore as a "New" gun in either highpower or Fclass much less anything else. Its hay day was when there were not a lot of custom actions on the market, and that is not the case today.

    That is what was meant by "rules" changing.

    Understand you love the Model 70 but if it was that damn accurate it would be the action of choice in every accuracy discipline today and the cold hard facts are it is not! Other actions are out now that are better and cheaper than a "fixed up" model 70. I love it to as a great hunting action but I am not going to build an accuracy gun on one today. Flat out economically dumb decision and that is not even a disputable fact.

    Do not deceive yourself that just because you love it that makes it better than the others. Competititors today do not care about what worked 20-30 years ago, we have other actions that are easier to make shoot well (ie take out of the box, barrel and shoot).

    I shot with the AMU in the mid 70s and it was the action of choice for the long range due to action rigidity and bolt lockup over the 700 and weatherby actions by the AMU armors. Custom actions have fixed those issues and are ready to go with no work. So why in the world would anyone want to buy a model 70 action now, spend all the money fixing it and the action would be inferior (at best maybe equal) to what they can buy with no work and the value is automatically half what they just spent? Dumb dumb

    If you are thinking that BR rifles are not the most accurate then you have never gone one the line and shot against them for sure. Bring the model 70 out to any match and they are all over now, and as long as it is under 17 lbs shoot in the light gun class and see what it can do versus talking about it.

    There is one competititor in 1k BR shooting a model 70 and yes it is accurate after a lot of work, but he has had it since he started and even he states if he builds another gun, he would not use that action. It can be done but at a cost that is not justified compared to new actions.

    Bottom line is look at the current equipment lists today and forget what was 20 years ago. You are living in the past glories of the model 70.

    BH
     
  8. Whitetail Hunter

    Whitetail Hunter Well-Known Member

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    Does Lawton have a web sight /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
     
  9. Ballistic64

    Ballistic64 Well-Known Member

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  10. Whitetail Hunter

    Whitetail Hunter Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Ballistic64
     
  11. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Bottom line is look at the current equipment lists today and forget what was 20 years ago.

    [/ QUOTE ]I know what's in the equipment lists. None of them have shot as accurate at 600 yards as the Win. 70 has. If there's any one that's been in a rifle that's shot several 10-shot groups all under 1/4th MOA at 600 yards with some down to 1/8th MOA, let me know.
     
  12. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    Bart

    [ QUOTE ]
    I know what's in the equipment lists. None of them have shot as accurate at 600 yards as the Win. 70 has. If there's any one that's been in a rifle that's shot several 10-shot groups all under 1/4th MOA at 600 yards with some down to 1/8th MOA, let me know.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I am talking about an equipment list in the last 5 years.

    And yes I know it was shot with a sling from the prone with the guy standing on his head and shooting cross dominant and the only reason it opened up to 1/8 MOA is he lost one to a 20 MPH wind shift from 3 to 9 oclock.

    Do you honestly expect anyone to believe David Tubb for example gave up the most accurate rifle in the world (according to you) to shoot something less accurate (Tubbs 2k)?

    So dig out that Model 70 "Wonder Rifle" go to the closest 600 yard BR match and whoop all them BR rifles and set the world record. You have just claimed repeatedly it can be easily done in real life. If what you are saying is true, and that gun shoots is as good as you claim, it will be a piece of cake.

    Seeing as how the world record for 5 shots at 600 yards is around 3/4" that makes it easy for your 1/8 moa (10 shots) wonder gun, it should be simple.

    When can we expect to see the new record in your name?

    Also you should be able to use "Wonder Gun" to set the world record for a 4 target agg at 600 as that is right at 1". Only one small catch, the targets are all shot the same day and back to back. You will not be able to take your 4 best targets ever shot in your life and say I have a 4 target agg of 1". that means it is a real test of back to back accuracy and not the one target in a lifetime.

    When you have the records to back up the "internet/once in a lifetime/someone told me about it/" groups, then you have have something real.

    You might want to do some reading on modern actions. this months precision shooting has an article that has a chart showing the rigidity of actions which naturally lends to their inherent accuracy. The model 70 is second lowest but it does beat the Rem 700, and the lowest custom action is at least almost 6x more rigid and one of them is 10x.

    Good shooting.

    BH