Going Scope Crazy!!! ....err

Discussion in 'Long Range Scopes and Other Optics' started by shooters, Feb 21, 2011.

  1. shooters

    shooters Well-Known Member

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    My eye balls hurt, my head is spinning. I have been reading and reading and asking and asking about scopes for months. Cabelas, Scheels, Bass Pro, internet, etc.... except for LRH. I have 3 new rifles and none of them have scopes cause I can't narrow anything down.
    Have a REM AR-15 VTR .223
    Have a REM VSSF ll 22-250
    Have a REM Sendero SF ll 300 RUM

    As far as reticals, I really like the DOT retical for small varmit calibers due to its simplicity (spelling) and ease of on target use. That is my choice.

    As far as the 300 RUM, I'd like a scope to dial in that is actually accurate. I had the Leupold VX3 with the Boone & Crockett retical and it was way off after about 450 yards with the load I used that matched thier dope chart exactly. I'd like a scope for the RUM that is simple as far as the retical, but I can dial up and place on target.....with extensive testing and a dope chart.

    Price for the 22-250 and the .223 ................under a $1000 each
    Price for the 300 RUM ..........don't really care.

    I am so lost on which scopes cause some do not offer the DOT rectical. Would like a higher powered magnafication for all.....say 4-16x50 30mm tube for RUM and or 6.5x24x50 30mm tube for varmiters. Ones that are CLEAR close range to infinity.

    Nikon? Sightron? Nightforce? Leupold? Bushnell? Vortex? Maybe I'm just dumb, but the side parallax is a pain to me.....I think. I have to adjust it to see clearly up close, but if I have to make a quick long shot, in order to see clearly through the scope, I have to adjust it first to see??? Huh?? That doesn't seem to make much sence to me. So, what works? Hard to choose when I can't take them all out in the field and shoot. Although Bushnell has this Elite 6500 series, their name still worries me. Same with Sightron, Vortex, and even Nikon. Just not sure, so any and all infor would be great from all you guys that really know your stuff. Again, thanks for any future help.
     
  2. SBruce

    SBruce Well-Known Member

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    There are TONS of options, really are. Although the dot is hard to find, I agree there are not alot of them out there.

    I like the dot on a quick point and shoot type of rifle. I use a Leupold 4-12X42 with Leupold dot on my 25-06 BDL. Sight in at 300, hold on hair out to 400 or a little further. The official "Leupold Dot" is hard to find, but it's a 1/2 minute dot with fine crosshairs that get thicker as they extend outward. Easier to find the dot then the "floating dot" type of reticle. I Really Really like mine for quick shots. Call Leupold and ask what scopes they put the LD in.

    For the most part, sounds like you want simplicity in a reticle. That gives you alot of choices. Hard to beat a standard duplex if you are wanting/willing to dial the knobs for long shots. Just about everyone makes a duplex in just about every scope model.

    When you get over 10X-12X, that will be an issue. Plain and Simple, we gotta focus something for distance, or turn the power down.

    I usually set the SF or AO for clear at 200-300 (for most shots) and it's pretty good from about 100 to 400 that way. If I think I might need to shoot closer than 100, just turn the power down some. Further than 400, usually have some time to adjust.........plan on having some time to adjust if you are dialing scope adjustments.

    Brand is alot about personal preference. I've used/owned Bushnell, Weaver, Burris, Zeiss, Leupold, and Nightforce. I like Leupold and NF and Zeiss. I've been around and seen Nikons and know people that really like them. I know people that really like their Bushnells too. I haven't seen any Vortex or Sightron scopes yet, but am thinking I'll look into them a little. To each their own.?
     

  3. Sako7STW

    Sako7STW Well-Known Member

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    If you want a scope that will be exact in yardage there are some really great options. Best thing to do is shoot the gun with standard turrets to confirm drop, collect the data and get with the companies below and they will build you a turret for the scope. Here are some options:

    Huskemaw Optics
    (never been super impressed with the optic quality of these scopes, others claim super optic quality with these, but the Blue Diamond maybe the answer?? The system of reticle/turret is nothing short of genius though.)

    gseven - Home
    Using Nightforce as their base scope, you know you will be getting the high end of optics but they are not cheap either. Designed by the same guy that did Huskemaw

    Greybull Precision
    Based on the Leupold scope, you know its tough, decent optics, and the price is decent too.

    Kenton Industries
    They will give you the choice of the scope you want and will make the turret for that scope, there is a good list of scopes vs. cost they can build turrets for on the site. No windage correction on the turrets and no reticle to match, thus not a "system" like those above.

    Vortex Optics - Home
    Here is a manufacturers option. Check out their TMT turret option.

    Hope this will give you some ideas for starters, could have just made your life mor confusing though LOL.
     
  4. lever-hed

    lever-hed Well-Known Member

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    I am going crazy trying to offer advise, you really need to narrow it down one a t a time , ok what you need to do for each? what is going to be the main application for each rifle? What conditions, are you target only or?,, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc
     
  5. shooters

    shooters Well-Known Member

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    Well narrow it down I did. I'm going with the Sightron Slll SS 6-24x50 LR D 30mm tube. Finally found the 2 I need for the varmiters. Have the exact retical I've been looking for in the type of scope I've been looking for. Think they will do pretty good. Haven't actually looked through one, but have read lots of great post about them. Power level seems about right as well.Low enough to see close, but not so far out (I think) to were it will be blurry or unclear. Best price I've found is $792. I'll keep shoping for price, but I'm 99% sure that is the scope I want on the .223 and 22-250.

    As far as the RUM, would be nice to plink around 1000 yards. Not sure I'll ever try and take an animal that far, but would like the option for in the far away future. Like I posted earlier, I tried the Leupold VX3 4.5-14x50 LR Boone & Crockett retical. I followed thier instruction to a "T" and used thier ABC chart and bullet impact wasn't even close out past 450 yards. I even built loads with exact bullet weights and speeds according to that chart. No go. Called Leupold and they said it was just a ball park system. Still like Leupolds, just not looking for a ball park scope. Not fair to any animal. Anyway, now to find the RUM scope. Have considered the new Huskemaw scope, but too many people seem to bad mouth Huskemaw.....not sure why. That kind of steers me away from wanting to try them. I dunno. Thanks again for the advice and help guys.
     
  6. sp6x6

    sp6x6 Well-Known Member

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    There is nothing wrong w/your Leupold, I have several of that model.You just need to learn some long range techniques. The Huskamaw wont fix you , not if you just say a velocity and bullet and go from there. You need to shoot and chrono your load, then go to any free ballistic calculator, for drops. The B&C reticule is first hash 2.2 drop,second4.8,third 6.3, post 7.8 moa. Ilike a 200 zero. Figures are on large delta. Calc a 200 zero and see what drops match reticule. There is a program to do this also, some scope companys have there own on web site.You then STILL have to field verify, doesnt matter what scope.Notice you are in G Falls, I would think someone at Scheels in gun dept. would be up on this, they sell rifles with test targets that shoot itty bitty groups.I also use the last hash as a dial off point, which is a 500 hold for my 257.Example I dial 2.6 moa on cds turret for a 600 yrd. shot
     
  7. davewilson

    davewilson Well-Known Member

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    get your gun shooting whatever bullet you want, sight it in at 200, then see what yardage the hashes are good for. they will rarely fall right on the even 100 yard intervals.
     
  8. shooters

    shooters Well-Known Member

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    Well, not sure what you mean by long range techniques. Using an old Burris Signature Scope to test with, a very sturdy lead sled, 200gr Accubonds were chronoghraphed.... light loads only pushing 2992fps....rounds were tested out to the 600 yard range holding zero on center dot everytime on 8' high home made ply wood. Measured out drop in inches from zeroed 200 yards. Shot 2 shot groups at each yardage holding zero wating 5 min between groups to cool down. Zero wind.

    200 yards.....0.0
    250 yards.....2.5" drop
    300 yards.... 6.8" drop
    350 yards.....12.2" drop
    400 yards.....18.4" drop
    450 yards.....27.0" drop
    500 yards.....37.0" drop
    550 yards.....49.2" drop
    600 yards.....61.2" drop

    Leupold VX3 B&C was then planted on RUM. Using Leupolds guide, we matched the bullet drop, speed, and weight to the correct "group" chart that came with scope. Scope was then zero'd at 200 yards. Testing began. 300 yards was 2" low. Too much for my likings. 400 yards was over 4" low. HUH??? My rounds shot high in inches compared to their "Leupold" chart during the Burris testing. How in the heck was it low? 450 yards was 6" high. HuH again? One extreme to the other. Should have been dead on or slighly high. Not 6" high. 500 yards was 8" low. How. I should have actually been slightly high on most. Tried to get it to work over and over. Just didn't happen. Called Leupold. They said it was just to get you close.....kind of a refrence. Scope just didn't work for me.

    Also, looking for a scope out to 1000 yards.
     
  9. sp6x6

    sp6x6 Well-Known Member

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    The reticule is marked at there selected numbers, if you get another type, you have to do similar process, or just dial the drop.Their reticle. first hash 2.2 is exact match for drop you gave. 6.8" divide by 3 for the 300 yard =2.2 moa.Next hash is 4.8 moa, your drop at 400 was 4.6 moa, which is close,but high, next hash is 6.3 moa your 500 drop was 7.4 moa low, it is about matching drops to what is preset in reticule to use as hold over. Changes for every load and reticule type. IF you use a mil type for hold you have to match drops to reticule.You are never going to get reticules to be set for 2,3,4,500 etc. unless you are lucky and they match, or go with a custom dot type. That is why so many dial.When I printed a sample ballistic chart off your info,I came up with close numbers200,325,425,490,post was 45.2"drop and 7.8 moa.There is a program that will solve reticule drops, I dont have it.I have many different reticules over the years, and I like them for quick holds, like varmits. Burris sends a bunch of sticker with thiers, but you still have to find the closest. I know the drops on my mil ret. and they are odd #'s like 275,350,412,475,... out to825 for 5 mil hold over, but for precision ltr I like to dial. Notice that you have archery freak. IT is kind of like using fixed pins vrs a micrometer type site. I have seen guys with fixed pins set at odd #'s also. What reticule did you go with,type for your varmit?
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2011
  10. shooters

    shooters Well-Known Member

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    Makes more since. Thanks for help. I guess I was under the impression that if my bullet weight, speed, etc... matched their charts, it would have been right on. Little misunderstanding on my part. As far as the reticals for the varmint scope, I'm really liking the plain DOT retical. Very fine hairs with the single dot. Seem extremely easy for me to dial in on a prairie dog or a Yote. Like the idea of turrets and the dot......simplicity works well for me when varmiting.
     
  11. SBruce

    SBruce Well-Known Member

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    I've seen the same thing with Leup's Varmint Hunters reticle.

    First off, they don't advertise what the subtension (spacing) between marks really truly is on all models/powers.

    Hell, I even called customer service and requested this info (on a specific model at max power) before I bought a $1700 VX-7 with said reticle........I got "it's a relative thing, dial the power to match your real drops" response..............Umh?

    Well, that's ok (I said to self), bought the scope anyway and first thing; set up a target with inch grids at exactly 100 yds, and veiwed through max power (14 on this model)

    I quickly determined that spacing between lines was:

    Main crosshair and Line 1 = approx. 1.8 IPHY
    Main to Line 2 = approx 4.5 IPHY
    Main to Line 3 = approx 7.5 IPHY
    Main to Line 4 + approx 10 IPHY

    I did windage marks too, but that's a different story.

    Theoretically, that reticle (on 14X) will work for at least 3 different rifles I have, based on ballistic reticle analysis on NF program when sighted in at approx 300 yds (real life drops are very close out to about 600 yds).

    I guess my point is, the guys that designed this reticle know way more about shooting than the people that answer the phone or print the diagrams at Leupold..........Still, so far I am very happy with the scope, but I dont believe I would've ever had this issue with some other brands.

    IMO, Leupold is behind the times on their BDC reticles just as they are on offering a MOA or IPHY reticle (which Nightforce and others have had for many years)..............But, the Customer Care package on VX7's is pretty cool, and they are made in America and stand up to their warranty.

    Pick our battles I guess?
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2011
  12. eddybo

    eddybo Well-Known Member

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    I use one of the VX-7s on my 06AI, I have been impressed by it. I am a gimmick type guy and love the pop up scope caps on the elevation and windage. I do not shoot that rifle much anymore but seem to recall that even the side focus had those same caps, which I did not like. What a pain just to adjust parralax. I probably would not buy another even though I like mine. For the same money leica has a scope that I would prefer. I am gonna pick one up next week with the low turrets and .5 mil reticule. I gotta run by the walmart and buy the cheapest junk scope I can to get the 500 dollar off price deal which ends this month.
     
  13. SBruce

    SBruce Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I could do without the speedial cap on the left side. I really do like them on the windage and elevation however. Lost count over the years of how many scopes (with target or tactical knobs) get accidentally turned, or turned the wrong direction on hunting scopes. Especially when sliding them in and out of scabbards, seats of pickups, gun cases, somebody else handling the gun, ect.

    Holy Crimony, my son and my best friend are both probably a finger turrets worst enemy.....seen em both FUBAR a scopes adjustments in seconds. Needless to say, the Speedial was the #1 selling feature for me, LoL:)
     
  14. sp6x6

    sp6x6 Well-Known Member

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    Sent my 15 yr. old out with a buddy, speed goating, good for kid cant complain as much. They got into em, LRH, my buddy says, you might want to check your scope, It sounded like cards against a bike spoke trick:D