??Getting an FFL??

Discussion in 'Gunsmithing' started by bigngreen, Aug 18, 2010.

  1. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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    I've been doing some research on getting an FFL but I see that there are kits that you can get that help with the process and give you some software but I don't know if they are worth it over just doing it from the Gov. source ? Any recommendations pro or con?
     
  2. shortgrass

    shortgrass Well-Known Member

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    Don't waste your time or money on "kits". If you go to ATFE web site you can probably request an application 'on line'. There are really no secrets to it.
     

  3. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, that was kinda what I was thinking but didn't know for sure. I don't really need an FFL right now but I'm working my way to need one and I would like to have it in place before I need it as opposed to the ever popular "waiting on my FFL" deal. That and I want to take advantage of some FFL or gunsmith pricing that some companies have, that would make my getting deeper into it cheeper, I think.
     
  4. Dr. Vette

    Dr. Vette Well-Known Member

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  5. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, I saw that but I might as well go all the way because I'll more than likely want to buy actions as soon as my fuse gets lit and waiting won't be an option, patience is not my strong point :D
     
  6. Gene

    Gene Well-Known Member

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    Unless you are a legitimate dealer, with a store open to the public, expect BATF to run you through hoops to get an FFL. Here is just a partial list of what they will want: A background check, your photo and fingerprints, copies of your local mercantile license and sales tax collection license if your state has one. They will want to know your store hours (so that an agent can pay a surprise visit and check your books, inventory, etc), also whether you have a sign in front, advertise locally, and the list goes on. BATF has been eliminating basement dealers for years. I was one and they put me out of business (it was my choice) by constant harrassment.
     
  7. shortgrass

    shortgrass Well-Known Member

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    A+ for what Gene had to say. I'll add that you must be in compliance of all city/county ordinances, too. Neighborhood covenants are , also, looked at. Anymore, you need to be able to show that you are a legit firearms related business to be issued a license. BATFE is under DOJ (a.k.a. Eric Holder). That won't make getting a license any easier. If you are setting up a business, the best of luck to you. "Sporting" type firearm sales are at a low right now because of the down economy. In the area where I live, those that came on for "The Obama bump" are 'out' or on their way 'out'. I'll quote a signature I've seen on a local forum, "I'm glad I'm not trying to make $20 selling a gun these days". If you are applying for a license so you can 'buy cheaper', good luck!
     
  8. shortgrass

    shortgrass Well-Known Member

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    A Curio & Relics license won't get you 'actions', only firearms listed as a Curio or Relic. To be listed as a C&R the firearm must be in its original condition and be at least 50 years old, or, have its value in its scarcity or rarity ( a sporterized Mauser or Springfield aren't considered a Curio or Relic ). Modern actions aren't C&R eligble. A Springfield or Mauser action isn't either (because they aren't in their 'original form'). A C&R license doesn't allow you to 'deal' firearms. It allows you to have transactions with other C&R license holders and surplus importers who will honor a C&R license. The C&R regs get violated regularly because of not understanding the regs. Not 'understanding the regs' isn't an excuse with ATFE. (some of those importers and wholesalers charge extra for dealing with C&R)
     
  9. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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    I'm getting things checked out right now with local ordinance issues, I guess my point to all this is to be able to receive an action and do work to it, assemble a rifle and send it back to a possible customer or friend. My major intent is not to buy stuff cheaper but to do work one rifles without running into the BATF problems. I'm far from the point of putting up a store front, this is just getting my ducks in a row.

    Question, can a guy work on rifles and do custom work without an FFL but have a local one transfer for you? I know I read all the info on the BATF website but I need to go read it again, I saw that you don't need the class 7 unless you do over 50 pieces.

    I DO NOT want to start of on a bad foot with the BATF!!!
     
  10. bigbuck

    bigbuck Well-Known Member

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    shortgrass, the gunsmith that I use use to build and assemble rifles based off of the mauser actions he said he didn't need a FFL to do work and sell rifles built on this platform . Then he said the rules changed some years ago and now he cannot do it . Are you saying that it has never been legal in the first place ?

    bigngreen , check your PM :)

    Bigbuck
     
  11. shortgrass

    shortgrass Well-Known Member

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    For the 14yrs. I've had a FFL, it has never been legal. The Mauser is a 'firearm' as defined by the Gun Control Act of 1968. If it is in original, military configuration, with no aftermarket parts or alterations, chances are, it is considered a Curio & Relic. Once altered it is considered as any other firearm. Bigngreen, you can do gunsmithing with a 01 Dealers license. Using a customer supplied receiver for a build is considered gunsmithing and the owner of the action is considered the manufacturer (if he/she uses it). If you, as the FFL, buy , say, a Remington 700ADL and dismantel it for the action and then barrel it or build a complete rifle using that action, you are considered the manufacture because you 'materially changed' that firearm. Here's another government web site to confuse things even more,,TTB.Gov. If you, as the FFL holder, buy rifles for action donors or buy custom actions and barrel them or build rifles using these actions then you are the manufacturer and any more than one build will require a 07 Manufacturers license. You can build 50 before you are required to pay excise taxes. If you build 51 you must pay excise taxes on all 51 firearms. It can get pretty deep collecting the info from different goverment agencys and different representitves of those departments and agencys. On ATFEs' web site you can order ATF Publication 5300.4 which is "Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide' 2005". Seems the key words defining manufacturing are "materially changed'. There is much more to be researched and understood with a 07 Manufacture license rather than a 01 Dealers license. There seems to be pleanty of different ideas by many different folks concerning licensed manufacturing these days. I get my info from ATF and Dept. of the Treasury, Alcohol & Tobacco Tax & Trade Bureau. The reason you see 'waiting on FFL' is because you need to have all those other 'ducks' in a row before a FFL will be issued.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2010
  12. NesikaChad

    NesikaChad Well-Known Member

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    Don't spend a dime buying anything from anyone.


    Call your BATF regional office and ask for the industry operations agent. Ask for the application.

    Fill it out to the letter. Write everything down on a tablet first and anything in question, call the BATF for guidance BEFORE filling out the app and submitting it.

    Fingerprints: Go to the PD. Chances are they use an electronic Motorola unit. the formatting will be different than what the FBI wants. Don't sweat it. Include a cover letter explaining it when you submit your app and you'll be fine.

    Photos. Black and white or color are fine. Just your mug shoulders up is fine.

    Be prepared to wait. It takes about 90-120 days typically.

    If your dealing/building/manufacturing ensure your chosen location is zoned for it prior to your interview. If renting a shop, have a notorized letter from the land owner granting permission. (you may or may not need this)

    If this is so you can get stuff cheap, forget it. The "old days" are over. BATF only issues FFL's to legitimate businesses.

    Good luck. Not hard, no voodoo involved. Just good ol fashioned government paperwork.

    Chad
     
  13. bigbuck

    bigbuck Well-Known Member

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    The mug shot is gonna get em:D

    BigBuck
     
  14. Jeff Walker

    Jeff Walker New Member

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    Make an appointment to meet your zoning admin. and your CLEO ( Chief Law Enforcement Official ). Introduce yourself, sit down and have a talk with them about your intentions. The ATF is going to let these two people have a lot of influence in whether or not you get approved for a license. I did not want the Sherriff passing judgement on me without ever having met me so that's what I did. Meeting the zoning admin. made a big difference too. Mine was a flaming anti-gunner and he told me that he could stop me from getting the FFL and he would ! So I waited a few years until we got a new guy, met him and all was well. The rest is simply filling out an application in quadruplicate, fingerprinting, having passport type photos done, and a rendezvous with an agent for site inspection. Just remember, for the most part these guys have families and friends and a life just like the rest of us and want to do their job and go home. As long as you have never been in any kind of trouble, all should go smoothly.