Gang hunting. Is it fair to the animals?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by goodgrouper, Sep 13, 2007.

  1. goodgrouper

    goodgrouper Well-Known Member

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    I just looked through one of our current hunting magazines based out of the western US and saw yet another picture of one hunter and a buck surrounded by 10 "other" guys who managed to crowd into the picture. If you live out west here you might guess who the crowd was. Has something to do with a mossyass or something. Seriously, if they get any more henchmen into the picture they're going to have to start using a fisheye lens.

    Honestly, how many drones with walkie-talkies does it take to kill a buck or a bull? Is it fair to the game or to the rest of us to have hoards of pawns on every ridge communicating every twitch of a buck's nose to a high priced hunter several of zip codes away? And how many of these so called "guides" are even licensed? In Wyoming where a guide had better damn well be licensed and PROVE he's licensed, these mossass guys don't seem to tread. And Montana where it is illegal to hunt with walkie-talkies, these guys don't seem to be quite as "skilled" at their game taking. I wonder why.

    And who are these mindless morons who pimp our game for us anyway? DOn't they have any ethics? Don't they have any balls of their own? They hang on to big D's ankles trying to make a name for themselves when if they just manned up and went out on their own they could save the last shred of dignity they had left. Why fight for scraps from the table when they could be cutting the bacon straight from the hog themselves? And then maybe, just maybe, they could be called hunters again if it were a one man show.

    These gang guys wouldn't know a hunt if it snuck up and bit them on the arse. Let's see them fly solo on a general season hunt. Let's see them bag a buck without January snow. Let's see them take a bull that is truly on public property outside a CWMU or a limited entry unit. Come on you spineless ninnies, let's see what you can do when you're put on even ground with the rest of us "average hunters". I swear on my grandfather's grave if that mossass calls me an average hunter one more time in his pathetic videos just because I haven't booked a hunt with him, I'm going to start a new hunting season!

    The crowning event in my hunting career is going to be the day I dump a big bull out from under these clowns from across the canyon and then walk over to them and say, "not too damn bad for an average hunter and I didn't even remember to bring my walkie talkie." "Hey, since there is like 20 of you guys, couldya help me get this meat out?"

    Please, help save our sport. Save our animals. Save your money. Don't book hunts with these mossass fellas if you're coming out west to hunt. By giving them your money, you are helping them end your hunting priveleges because gang hunting does not sit well with the general public or their view of hunting. And the rest of us get blamed. We suddenly all become gang hunters because we have our friends or family in a hunting pic.
    We know this is not right. We know gang hunting is not fair to anyone. We know it is not a sport. It has become a business for these guys to pimp the state's wildlife out to the highest bidder. Wouldn't it be nice if we all could make 1200% profit from something we didn't own in the first place?! This "guiding crew" makes money from the rich guy at the expense of the poor guy and then they pass it off as game management? PLEASE STOP THE INSANITY! This is a rape job and it should be a crime.

    Please pass this along to your hunting buddies if you care.

    I will gracefully fall off my soapbox now. Thank you.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2007
  2. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    I saw that and I though it was pretty bad and also saw another
    so called expert on tv take a brush shot that would have got his ass
    kicked where I come from.and the "guide" had the nerve to say what
    a great shot it was. And this guy puts down long range hunting ?

    Before the shot he even said he could'nt tell how big or how many
    points that dear had.

    J E CUSTOM
     

  3. NYLES

    NYLES Well-Known Member

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    I hear ya GG, I cant stand to watch 9 out of 10 Hunting shows. Be easy on the walkie talkies, I understand the way they are using them but every one I hunt with has one..its a good way to pass time in a treestand give reports on what your seeing or just general BS....and when your dad is 63 paw in law is 74 two old retiree's in thier 60's is who your hunting with good to be able to talk in cases of emergencies(or any thing else)........scares me watchin them old guys go up a tree....fun to let a small buck feed around you watch and give heads up coverage on some of the dumb things deer do when they dont know thier being watched! I had 2 button bucks spend the day under me last year I got to laughing at em and couldnt stop before it was over everybody was laughin at me on the radio! Talk about 2 lil gobber bucks man Im about to bust out now!

    Id love to have some of those "PRO HUNTERS" square up on a level plain and lets see who goes home empty handed!
     
  4. specweldtom

    specweldtom Well-Known Member

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    GG & JE, I don't get Outdoor Channel or OLN anymore, but other than Jim Scouten's shooting program, I don't miss the rest. (I did enjoy seeing places I'll never get to go to, though) Even when they don't show the kill, you know the anti-hunters are pointing their fingers and making notes. How much worse are these "death squads"?
    I have never been on a guided hunt, but would enjoy it with a real guide, if I could afford it and if it really was a fair chase. A gang of "guides" with walkie-talkies is crap. The hunt is the thing, and if I don't earn a kill, I don't want it. Like a lot of Texans, JE and I hunt on a private ranch by leasing year round hunting rights, but there are big ranches that "day lease" or package hunts. I believe that they are mostly fair chase, but some offer "canned hunts" with a guaranteed shot. Either they have a lot of game, or it's not fair chase.

    In Texas, wild native game animals belong to the people of the state, not the land owner, and the Parks and Wildlife Dept is considering rules that would stop High-fence capture and harvesting of protected species, particularly whitetail deer. If adopted, I'm not smart enough to predict all the things it would change, but overall, I think it's the right thing to do.

    Tom
     
  5. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    I hear ya GG.

    Up here its not the mossass outfit but the large groups of "sportsman" who get together. I've heard as many as 20+ shots in a very short time and watched the buck dance through all of them.

    As far as shooting one out from under them; that is a goal of mine also. However they've been known to go up to the dead animal and put a shot into it and stake their claim.:mad: I have a plan for that too.;)

    and I watch tv shows no longer!
     
  6. Surveyor

    Surveyor Well-Known Member

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    We hunt a large farm, with permission of the land owner, along with about 8 other guys, whose manners are less than considerate. A few of them have no regard for where your at and occasionally will walk around to pass the time.

    Our big thing is using them to communicate between the three of us if we see one of the other "hunters" walking around the area were watching, mainly for our safety.

    Beyond that, I've givien up on hunting shows, with the exception of upland birds and waterfowl.
     
  7. Dirty Steve

    Dirty Steve Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't be so sure about the "not in Wyoming" statement. Last year I was sitting just over the crest of a ridge watching a line of about 30 elk filter down and across the canyon into the timber north of the Gros Ventre. We had heard the bulls bugleing before daylight and had snuck into position for what was going to be about a 500 yard shot. Everything was ready, rifle on the bipod, lasered where they would come out, guide acting as my spotter ready,....catching glimpses of the 350" plus 7x7 bringing up the rear of the herd, the same bull we had located the night before. All of a sudden we heard voices,...look at those bulls, bang, bang (WWII Normandy landing sound effects). Seven guys had ridden up behind us, after seeing the young bulls in the herd, and started blazing away, directly over the top of our heads. In all seriousness, over 30 shots rang out, dust flying, elk running and not a single one hit.

    Those (____) hunters had the nerve to comment that they had seen our horses tied below the ridge line and had seen my hat hanging in the blowdown we were sitting in, but man, when you see those many good bulls, everyone has got to start shooting so you can hit one. They commented that a few in their group had seen the herd and called the rest of the slob army on the radio so they could have more guns.

    I have never totally lost my cool as much as that day or used so many four letter words to describe someone's lineage or total disregard for the animals or safety of others.

    They never even saw the 7x7, and neither did I the rest of the 10 days I hunted.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2007
  8. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    DirtySteve,

    That's what I'm talkin' about:mad:

    A buddy and I were just above the tree line, right even with the tree tops. We were in plain sight. If they had duplex reticles we would have been within the thin part of the reticle. I know because they were in the thin part of mine! On the next ridge was a posse of horse hunters shooting at elk that were moving through the trees just below us.

    I took sheltering action and did some practice on rock busting over in their neighborhood. That was 30 years ago and I have since mellowed a bit but not a whole helluva lot.;)
     
  9. NYLES

    NYLES Well-Known Member

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    Roy mellow? hmm thats interesting! Ive never met Roy but I dont see mellow fitting his description....at all!
     
  10. Geezer

    Geezer Well-Known Member

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    If you see this gang-hunting stuff in Montana, you might want to call FWP.

     
  11. 7mmRHB

    7mmRHB Well-Known Member

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    Guys this is what the local big shot guide is doing that makes ol' GG crazy. He gets most of the big money Govenors tag (Auction ) guys to hunt with him because they'll be on a DVD. They pay well over 100,000 k at auction and another 20,000 to be guided. In return the guide who has the gang GG is talking about, scout the animals year around to keep track of the giant Bucks and Bulls, getting tape of dozens of good canidates. When the hunt is on which in alot of these auction hunts it starts in Sept. and go to the end of the year, they send an E- Mail to the client in whatever state he is living in and let him decide what buck or bull they would like to shoot. Now that they know which Buck is wanted by the client, the guides little groupies find the Buck and sit with him constantly until the client can fly in and be brought to the right spot. The groupies are spread out on all sides with the walky-talkies giving directions to get in position for the shot. ( If the hunt is a limited entry hunt and they run into competition with a regular hunter who worked hard on his own to find the Buck in question, the big shots have been known to run the little guy off, with money or otherwise )
    At that point they try to make this look like a real hunt, through editing, on his latest DVD. The groupies don't get anything but their picture in a video.The huge Bucks and bulls that stayed alive through all those months of the regular hunts get rewarded by being killed in Dec. on the winter range !!!

    On the limited entry units the Auction guys can hunt with a rifle during the archery--muzzle loader and the rifle portion. One friend crawled within 80 yards of a 230" non typical after 2 1/2 hr stalk on the Henry mountain unit only to watch the Auction tag holder/ rich dude shoot the buck out from under him !!!

    Just doesn't sit well with a lot of ( regular hunters ) I don't think GG has anything against Two way radios for normal hunting uses.

    The DWR says it needs the near one million dollars the Auction hunts bring in to run the wildlife programs, but those new Deisel pickups sure do look nice!!!


    ----- RHB---
     
  12. goodgrouper

    goodgrouper Well-Known Member

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    Very well said 7mmrhb. You know the guys doing this.

    And you're right, I have nothing against walkie talkies being used in normal hunting situations. It is when they are used by a hoard of "guides" to babysit a buck and herd a hunter into it that I have a major problem with them.
     
  13. IceSniper

    IceSniper Well-Known Member

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    While it's not a way i would like to hunt, as far as fairness goes you have to remember we're shooting things sometimes 1/2 a mile away or more and chances are, with most of us, if we can see it, we can kill it. Not exactly fair since were using weapon that have taken 100's of years to perfect. If you wanted to be 'fair' to the animals you should be hunting with a knife or spear IMHO.

    They just do whatever they can to ensure their client has a successful hunt, most people who pay for a guided hunt don't know anything about hunting and typically call going out into the bush for 2 nights with 2 car loads of stuff "camping rough style" and just want to kill something to brag to their mates about, if they went home empty handed they probably wouldn't come back. But i'll say it again for the record, that is NOT a way i'd like to hunt ;) .
     
  14. BrandonA

    BrandonA Well-Known Member

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    I think I'm glad my ignorance is bliss on this subject living in California and not having to see this first hand where I hunt or I'd probably feel as strongly as you.