Full Length Sizer Boring

Discussion in 'Gunsmithing' started by elkaholic, Apr 10, 2013.

  1. elkaholic

    elkaholic Well-Known Member

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    Here is a question for some of you gunsmiths. I am thinking about trying to make a neck sizing die for my new 6.5 SS which has a .550" head. To my knowledge, there is nothing out there in that size. This would be a temporary fix until my custom dies come in. I was thinking about reaming out a 6.5x55 die to slightly over .550" Is this possible, or is the die material just too hard?........Thanks/Rich
     
  2. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    Thats not a gunsmith question, thats a machine shop question.

    Take it to a local shop, they will have chucking reamers and most likely a Sunnen honong machine as well. It won't be cheap. Curious as to the ID of the current die and what you want it to be. That will determine what operation has to be performed and I take it, to the shoulder so the diameter is constant?
     

  3. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    Most dies are heat treated after they are reamed so my guess would be that you couldn't,t .

    When I want to make my own dies I buy a die blank from PTG. They also have sizing reamers
    for that and sometimes have a special on them if you buy both.(The die blank is not heat treated)

    This would probably be cheaper than going to a machine shop and you would not ruin a die set.

    J E CUSTOM
     
  4. elkaholic

    elkaholic Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the info guys. I kind of thought this would be the situation. I will probably just try to be patient and wait for my dies. I want to shoot this thing:D......Rich
     
  5. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    depends on the brand to a certain extent. What you might try is to run a standard Hi-Roc drill that's about 12mm into the die body. The drill should cut it OK. Then reindicate it all back in again, and cut it to size with a small boring bar with a ceramic insert. Once you get to about .545", I'd hone it to whatever size you desire. It is important that the final bore be very concentric with the OEM bore as the hone will follow that bore. The way I see it, your gonna end up trying to hone a blind bore, and this is not fun! I'd rough it in with a lathe, and then get somebody to finish it in a B&S #13 (leave him about .012" to grind)
    gary
     
  6. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    You guys aren't thinkin' outside the box. Too much training, I guess.:)

    My 338 RUM die wasn't quite right for the chamber in the Rem. 700.

    Chamber is on the large side.

    So:

    1. Use #7 drill bit and chuck in tail stock. Chuck desired case in head stock. Drill through the flash hole.

    2. Using same set up but with 1/4 - 20 tap in tail stock tap the hole just made. Note turn the head stock by hand do not fasten down the tail stock. It's gotta slide.:rolleyes:

    3. Scrounge around for a piece of 1/4 - 20 all thread or a long enough screw or machine screw or anything with a sufficiently long thread of 1/40-20 ilk.

    After cut to proper length

    Note: If done properly, or even close, the all thread/screw should be properly aligned so as not to have a bunch of wobble. This isn't all that critical as the honing process, at least the one I used was pretty much self aligning. :D It was a little hard on the wrist that held the drill motor though. :rolleyes:

    4. Luckily there was some fine valve grinding compound around the place (saved a trip to town - a critical project criterion. Learned that tooth paste, while it did work was really slow. (Read impatience).

    Used Crest to finish....

    Put what looks like enough grinding compound on the case, including the neck.

    5. Carefully mount the die in the vice using a protective material to protect the threads plus allow for some wobble. There will be wobble!:)

    6. Chuck the innovative honing device in the hand drill and go for it.

    Comment: one would think that brass would shrink before die enlarges. Not the case. The grinding compound embeds into the brass protecting it. It dries out fairly rapidly. Use oil or some such material, I used metal magic, to keep things from seizing.

    Comment: The dies are harder than Hades but too much material can be removed.
    Add compound as needed.

    Add/remove compound from neck and or case body to get desired results.

    Stop too soon rather than too late.

    By now you are laffing yur tails off but. . .

    The 338 RUM using a FL sizer die honed as stated above shoots sub 0.50 MOA @ 200 regularly with 300 Bergers @ 2735.

    And it did it the same day that I decided the die needed adjusting.

    Talk about impatience!!! Impatience is my strong suit. Machining and attention to detail is my weakness. :rolleyes:

    Sorry for taking up so much of your time . . . but what the hey! It was funny!

    This is like machinists porno . . . it'll stick in your mind forever....gun)
     
  7. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    I would surmise that the die is case hardened or about 0.030 give or take.

    I like the toothpaste thing. A fresh minty smell to your die.:D
     
  8. elkaholic

    elkaholic Well-Known Member

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    Roy, you are the only guy I know that could come up with something like that. I wish you lived closer:D.......Rich
    p.s. maybe you could finish it off with a little mouth wash:D:D
     
  9. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    Roy is an old fart (like myself and Gary) we have too much time to think about stuff whereas the younger crowd just goes and does it.......:rolleyes:
     
  10. Bullet bumper

    Bullet bumper Well-Known Member

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    What about a 6.5 something Lee collet die and either adjust the collets skirt length or ad a washer under it to get the correct sizing length.
    I use a machined washer with the 223 and the colllet die all the time to do partial neck sizing and it works great.
    It is not hard to adjust the room for extra neck thickness by lapping down the mandrel or even lapping out the collet neck area is possible .
     
  11. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    HEY! watch that!!!

    I learned a lot from my Dad, and he was a master tool maker (he had the paper work from the Fed). He was literally a farm boy from Tennessee that followed US31 north. Later in life I served my first apprenticeship with a bunch of Germans and Dutchmen. I watched those guys do finish grind work in a lathe all the time, and at times it looked rather rube goldberg. But they got results! One I still remember as if it were last week was a large brass cylinder that was about four feet long. The bore needed to be honed. They made a series of plugs wrapped with black paper and lapping compound. I've seen crankshaft journals reground accurately with a wooden block and emery paper more than once.

    My all time favorite one was when the guys came and got me one Saturday morning on a golf cart to have a look at a large J&L CNC lathe (20" chuck). They were changing all the wipers and filters and things on an annual major PM, plus fixing a few things that needed fixing. The Z axis ball screw bearing pack was very loose at both ends. When they broke the bearing pack loose at the chuck end the bearing block sprang up about eight or ten inches! The screw was bent a bunch. The guys removed it, and then came and got me. It was bent over ten inches. I figured they must have had one serious wreck, and we all started going over everything, and it was perfect. I go up to where I stored the ball screws and find a new one, and have it brought down to the job. Called Dave Bush at Lead Screw International and explained what I was seeing. He stopped in a couple days later to look at it (the screw was new six months prior). Dave sends it back to his shop with the plan on building a new shaft, but keep the old nut. His guys actually put the screw in his arbor press and straintened it. Worked like it had never been bent! Dave confirmed that the machine had not been wrecked. The gist here is that you'd be surprised as to what you can do if there is a serious need.
    gary
     
  12. elkaholic

    elkaholic Well-Known Member

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    Hello Bumper! How are things downunder? As far as I know, no one makes anything in 6.5 with a .550" body? How is your bullet making going......Rich
     
  13. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    Gary:

    My dad was a toolmaker at Cleveland Twist. He met my mom there during WWII. He had a deferment because the work he did was vital to the war movement so he joined the Coast Guard auxillary and patrolled the Great Lakes when he wasn't working.

    He died in an industrial accident at Cleveland Twist when I was almost 17 so I never really got to spend a lot of time with him but I still have his tools and his tool box to this day. Before he died he advanced to the department head prototype development.

    Mom retired from CT. She's been gone about 15 years now. She worked in final inspection and then in the office in billing.

    When I have to buy tooling that Cleveland Twist manufactures, it always comes from there. I don't ever look at cost, I consider them family.

    Might have told you but I took my apprenticeship at Standard Products in Cleveland Ohio and earned my Journeymans Card in tool and die making. That was a long time ago but it still seems like yesterday.

    Time flies. Like my good friend said to me, "take a tape measure, run it out to 100 and put your finger on your age. Look at 100, you most likely won't live that long. Then look back to the beginning of the tape. Amazing how much time you wasted and how little you have left...... Smart guy my friend is.

    I must say, it has been fun for ther most part, but I don't want a repeat performance.
     
  14. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    Gary,

    I appreciate your point. Ya gotta go with whatcha got. I look at the ancient clock movements and am in awe of how they were made!

    Craftsmen are craftsmen are craftsmen. What ever the discipline.