Full length resize or neck size only for y'all long range hunters?

[Old teacher]

I don't think we are in disagreement too much. We both agree that trial and error is a must with each individual rifle to match your case with your chamber. But I still do not understand why you FL size and the neck size afterwards.
Then FL sizing completes negates any advantage you gain with neck sizing. All you do is create a case that matches your die makers specs, which may not match your chamber specs. No die maker, regardless of brand, quality, or specialty, makes a die that creates a case that fits each and every rifle. The only way to do that is fireform, neck size, and reload. End of story, unless your bolt will not close comfortably. I do not know if Sako still does this, but 40 years ago, they used a chamber reamer three times. They cut a chamber, sharpened the reamer, cut another chamber, sharpened the reamer, and cut a third chamber and then threw the reamer away. Since the reamer had been sharpened twice, all three chambers had different specs. I have three 300 Win mags. A Remington Sendero, a Tikka, and an Encore. A fireformed case from the Sendero will not chamber in either of the other rifles. Cases FL sized will. Therefore, using a FL sized case in my Sendero is like having a marble rolling around in a pop bottle hoping to find its way out of the neck. What makes matters worse is that a FL sized case head spaces on the belt. A fireformed case headspaces on the belt AND the shoulder, and assuming that whatever rifle you are working with was reamed properly so the center line of the case and bullet is on the same plane as the center line of the barrel, the cartridge is locked in for its best possible accuracy. A good rule of thumb for reloading any case is to make as few changes to a fired case as is possible and still come up with a reloaded case that chamber well in the gun. Why FL size when neck sizing creates an absolute minimum of stress on the case, therefore making the case live longer, fit the rifle better, and be more accurate? This is a whole different topic, but another habit a lot of shooters I see at the range have is primer pocket reaming. They ream the primer pocket before each reloading and then wonder why their brass only lasts three or four loads before primers start falling out and they have an action full of powder. The new chemical brass cleaners are a Godsend for us reloaders because they completely clean primer pockets making a reamer an antique. If there was ever a process that the KISS rule applied to, it is cartridge reloading. But, as I have said many times on the forum, if it works for you, keep doing it.

 

[Clever]

I don't think we are in disagreement too much. We both agree that trial and error is a must with each individual rifle to match your case with your chamber. But I still do not understand why you FL size and the neck size afterwards.
Then FL sizing completes negates any advantage you gain with neck sizing. All you do is create a case that matches your die makers specs, which may not match your chamber specs. No die maker, regardless of brand, quality, or specialty, makes a die that creates a case that fits each and every rifle. The only way to do that is fireform, neck size, and reload. End of story, unless your bolt will not close comfortably. I do not know if Sako still does this, but 40 years ago, they used a chamber reamer three times. They cut a chamber, sharpened the reamer, cut another chamber, sharpened the reamer, and cut a third chamber and then threw the reamer away. Since the reamer had been sharpened twice, all three chambers had different specs. I have three 300 Win mags. A Remington Sendero, a Tikka, and an Encore. A fireformed case from the Sendero will not chamber in either of the other rifles. Cases FL sized will. Therefore, using a FL sized case in my Sendero is like having a marble rolling around in a pop bottle hoping to find its way out of the neck. What makes matters worse is that a FL sized case head spaces on the belt. A fireformed case headspaces on the belt AND the shoulder, and assuming that whatever rifle you are working with was reamed properly so the center line of the case and bullet is on the same plane as the center line of the barrel, the cartridge is locked in for its best possible accuracy. A good rule of thumb for reloading any case is to make as few changes to a fired case as is possible and still come up with a reloaded case that chamber well in the gun. Why FL size when neck sizing creates an absolute minimum of stress on the case, therefore making the case live longer, fit the rifle better, and be more accurate? This is a whole different topic, but another habit a lot of shooters I see at the range have is primer pocket reaming. They ream the primer pocket before each reloading and then wonder why their brass only lasts three or four loads before primers start falling out and they have an action full of powder. The new chemical brass cleaners are a Godsend for us reloaders because they completely clean primer pockets making a reamer an antique. If there was ever a process that the KISS rule applied to, it is cartridge reloading. But, as I have said many times on the forum, if it works for you, keep doing it.

Thank You for your detailed response.. It just works for me.

 

[Marlinproud]

Old Teacher youre saying that you never have to fl size and only necksize. Well then you must have some great reloading skills or a something perfect with the rifle. Brass flows with every firing and eventualy on the shoulders making it hard for the bolt to close. Thats why youre forced to fl size. I dont know how many times youve fired your brass to be able to say that you never have to fl size.

I got tired of doing necksizing and then being forced to eventualy fl size after couple of firings. So to keep things consistent now I body size after every firing. This only bumps the shoulders that small bit back to make closing the bolt easier but the case body still keeps its shape/dimensions of that guns chamber. And accuracy and poi stays the same whether necksizing only or using the body die. So now I only need 2 dies. Forster body die with neck busing of your choice and Redding competition seater.

 

[Old teacher]

Most of my brass (all Nosler) is on its fifth or sixth loading. Brass cannot flow if it has no place to flow to. The only cases I full length size are my straight wall cases, my 45-70 and my 38-55. I have not full length sized a case for which I have a neck sizing die in recent memory, and I have never had a problem closing a bolt. I have had a problem opening one now and then, but that is a different story and a whole different problem. If I had a case that the bolt would not close on, I would throw it away, because full length sizing would create a case that did not fit the chamber anyway and I wouldn't want to bother wasting a primer, powder charge, and bullet to fire form a case whose life was near the end anyway.

 

[Marlinproud]

Only fifth or sixth firing let's see what they're like on the 10th. Btw what caliber are you loading?

 

[Old teacher]

I have a number of cases that are on their tenth, or nearing it. The five or six I mentioned I meant as an average of all the calibers I shoot. I shoot about 15 different calibers ranging from the smallest, a 22-243 Middlestead, to a Remington .338 ultra mag, including several wildcats, my all-time favorite rifle, a semi-custom .257 STW. That's a fabulous caliber, and following the directions I got from the builder, I have fired about 500 rounds through it with no loss of accuracy. Fast cartridges will always wear out faster than slow ones, common sense tells you that, but there are things you can do to make barrel burners last a long time. My rifle builder said that I could expect about 2000 rounds through the .257 before I would start to see a serious loss of accuracy. The 22-243 will most likely not last that long due to the difficulty getting small bores squeaky clean.

 

[LDHunter]

The 22-243 will most likely not last that long due to the difficulty getting small bores squeaky clean.

That's the first I've heard of that one... Hmmmm.... I'm not arguing but I wouldn't have thought that my .224" barrels were any less clean than my .308" or .358" barrels nor do they seem to take any more time to clean but I never really tracked that.

 

[Old teacher]

Maybe your .22 barrels are as clean as your others. Cleaning .22 caliber barrels is a little more difficult simply because you have to use a jag to push a patch down the barrel, whereas in larger calibers, you can use the normal cleaning tip that holds a patch that you can run back and forth in the barrel. Since most of the .22+ barrels are calibers that push a bullet relatively fast, like the 22-243 which shoots the most accurately with the bullet speed right around 4000, and the very popular 22-250, which is not much slower. Faster bullets slough off more copper and lead than slower ones, so extra care needs to be taken to super polish the barrel with the brass brush. John Lazzeroni recommends running the brush through the barrel a minimum of 120 strokes, which astounded me. I tried that on my favorite 300 win mag, which I thought I had thoroughly cleaned, and you would not believe the garbage that began to break up and come out of that barrel as I got to about the 80th stroke. The barrel looked clean before I started, but it definitely wasn't. The rifle is 16 years old, and when new, consistently shot sub .5 MOA groups, but over the years the groups had expanded closer to 1 MOA. I blamed it on age and a lot of rounds through it. After the new cleaning, it went back to the smaller groups. I tried the same cleaning method on my 22-243, and got the same results.

Try pulling the bolt out of your favorite rifle and look down the barrel from the butt end. If it looks clean, take a flashlight, turn out the lights in the room, (Wear reading glasses even if you do not need them just to magnify what you are looking at) and shine the light at an angle down the bore (from the business end) just so you can see about 1/4 to a 1/2 inch down the barrel. What color do you see? Shiny silver is the only acceptable color. Orange means you have copper in the barrel which you cannot see from the butt end, and black means you have carbon buildup which you may or may not see from the butt end, depending on how bad it is. If it is not silver, start scrubbing and don't stop until a clean patch comes out of the barrel as clean as it went in. If the color you see is silver, then congratulations, you are most likely doing a great job keeping your bores clean.