Fouling in magnums

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by ATH, Aug 19, 2008.

  1. ATH

    ATH Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    853
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2003
    I shoot a 300WM Sendero, factory barrel (can't wait to burn that sucker out...). I've always had some fouling issues, but I typically shoot ten or less shots per range session so it was manageable as I just foamed the barrel afterwards.

    Lately I've been trying to empty some new cases to reload them for an upcoming elk hunt so I've been getting a lot more trigger time than usual -- more shots per session and more sessions. I've found that if I do not rigorously clean the barrel every ten shots or so, I only get 3-5 good shots in the next time before accuracy goes.

    By rigorous cleaning I mean half dozen passes with Butch's Bore Shine alternating with bronze brush passes, a bore foam, and then a dozen more Butch's passes alternating with bronze brush passes. Typically I get a bunch of carbon out, followed by more copper with additional carbon.

    The last time, even this was not enough. Last night I'd had it and after failing to ever get clean patches out (and not just the copper residue from the brush, but still carbon even after this long procedure) I plugged the barrel and filled it with copper solvent for 20min. This seemed to solve it, but this is making shooting a bigger pain than my muzzleloader.

    Is this normal with these factory barrels? Can I expect better when I toast this one and get a custom barrel installed?
     
  2. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,637
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2007
    May I ask, are you shooting TSX solid copper bullets? Reason I ask is it sounds like a problem I had with two different rifles. I switched one to Bergers and the other to Nosslers and my problem went away.

    Jeff
     

  3. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,068
    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    I've heard that using bronze brushes with copper solvent will make it look like you still ahve copper residue because it tends to disolve the bronze brush a little. Not sure, but that's what I've heard.
     
  4. Wayne Richards

    Wayne Richards Member

    Messages:
    20
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Try using a carbon cutter at first, use plastic bore brushes!
     
  5. petenz

    petenz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    255
    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2008
    It's quite easy to check if your barrel is copper fouled, if you're not sure about whether it is just coming off the brush or what...

    Put a clean patch on a jag and run it up from the chamber end to about a half inch from the muzzle. Hold the rifle so the muzzle is at an angle to the light, and look down there. If you can see coppery coloured streaks on the rifling, yup, you've got copper fouling.

    The patch reflects the light and makes it easier to see in the bore :)
     
  6. ATH

    ATH Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    853
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2003
    I'm shooting SMKs and Accubonds, both do this.

    I go at the carbon first (bore foam is carbon-only), then the copper. Carbon seems to be the cuplrit in groups opening up while shooting, but residual copper seems to be at fault for subsequent strings getting shorter and shorter before accuracy goes (ie carbon is building up over copper).

    Plastic brushes did not seem to remove the carbon effectively. I guess I was not clear but I know it's not the bronze brush causing the patches to continue looking bad, I've controlled for that.

    I'd just use the barrel for a stake if it wasn't so darned accurate before the fouling builds up.
     
  7. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,637
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2007
    ATH, I have had some factory barrels do it too. Two that come to mind, but both were fouling with TSX's due to a rough bore not liking the solid coppers. I have never had a custom barrel do it. There are come lapping compounds out there and some bullets too that are suppose to help this. But I do not have any first hand exserience with them.

    Jeff
     
  8. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

    Messages:
    8,853
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    ATH,

    I'd suggest an abbreviated Tubbs Final Finish process.

    Don't use the roughest ones and only half of the others or similar approach.

    I do it to all factory barrels, since I did it the first time, and have not had any decrease in barrel life, that I know of, or any fouling problems.

    Just a suggestion.

    Goodgroup, UncleB and the Utar gang speak very highly of the process.
     
  9. ATH

    ATH Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    853
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2003
    Thanks guys, at least I know there is a potential solution short of trying to shoot the barrel out faster. I have an elk trip in two months and don't want to waste precious range time trying to screw with things now. I'll probably put up with it through the trip then try to fix it this winter.
     
  10. Wayne Richards

    Wayne Richards Member

    Messages:
    20
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    ATH,
    A product made by wipe-out called carb-out is made for this type of problem. Supposed to be very agressive on carbon,will try this myself
    when I run out of the old G M top engine cleaner!
    Wayne
     
  11. ATH

    ATH Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    853
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2003
    The bore foam I referenced is the standard Wipe-Out, I find it works well on carbon but is not ideal for copper. However if I Wipe-Out the barrel then flood it with the Barnes copper solvent for 30min, it is spotless and I get a few good groups before it goes to pot again.
     
  12. johnnyk

    johnnyk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,731
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2001
    ATH,
    I used to use bronze brushes but now I use Nylon brushes. Back when the CopperMelt product was the rage, I bought the Tipton set of Nylon brushes. The CopperMelt process was to use an undersized brush for your barrel (.264 brush for .284 cal) and wrap a patch around the brush and soak it with CopperMelt using the pipette that came with it.
    Well the CopperMelt "petered" out and I can't find it anymore but the process works just as good with Montana Xtreme's "Copper Killer". I usually run 10 patches or less through my factory barrels. The first two take out the carbon fouling and then here comes the copper.
    I use my AA Mini Maglite with the "Nite Ize" fiber optic attachment to look for copper in the land of my barrels at the muzzle end.
    I have also used the Barnes CR-10 and I think Montana Xtreme is more aggressive. JMO, JohnnyK.
     
  13. ATH

    ATH Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    853
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2003
    That is a neat idea johnny, thank you. I'm guessing I'd use a .284 brush for my 300WM then. This is why I ask questions here, you guys are very helpful.
     
  14. johnnyk

    johnnyk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,731
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2001
    ATH,
    That's the size I use on my .300WM. I usually push the first two patches completely through then on the subsequent patches make ten in/out passes each. I use dry patches during the process to keep it from getting to overly "juicy" in there and spillig out the muzzle onto the floor. JohnnyK