form 1 process question

[eddybo]

A while back I decided I needed a couple of supressors and bought two from a sponser here. I sent off my forms to the ATF a long time ago. Today I got a citizen declaration from them that has to be sent back so they can continue.
Is this a normal step or did I fail to do something on the original form?

How much longer am I looking at?

My 8 twist .30 should be here soon so I am getting antsy.

 

[James Jones]

You should have or your dealer rather should have had you fill out a form "4" if your buying one for a dealer. The only thing that you should have to do would be to have the "Chief Law Enforcement Officer" sighn off on it saying that its ok that you have this The dealer should be able to easly walk you through the steps.

The Form "1" from ATF is the application to build your own suppressor and is a bit of a differant process.

A little word of advice , if you register the suppressor in a buisness's name or in a living trust then you can skip the whole Sheriff sign off thing and if anything ever happens to you then the buisness or trust keeps the suppressor , in case you want to leave it to a child other wise you will have to pay another transfer fee.

What models did you get?
I reciently was able to compair a suppressor that I built for a 338 Lapua against a 762SD from AAC on a 308 and was plesanly supprised at how well my can work , granted it was a little bit louder than the 308's but were talking twice the powder also , the recoil was a little bit more than with the big custom break he had but it was still very managable , maybe like a 7-8lb 308 and shooting the 338 without hearing protection was a treat.
I'm gonna be building another for a guy that has a class 3 M-60 and wants a can that will handel a couple hundered rounds of full auto 308 , the whole thing is gonna be series 718 Inconell.
I'm still waiting for my latest form 1 to come back so I can get started on my personal 308 can.

NOTE: For those of you freaking out about the legality of all this most states alow the ownership of a registered class three weapon and building a silencer for sombody else is legal as long as they have their stamped form 1 and their body and paperwork are presant with you and ALL the parts during manufacture ,you simply a contracted tool.

 

[eddybo]

Your right it was a form 4...I think. I had to get the sheriff to sign off on it and do the print card and passport pics.

You should know which one I got cause you sent me the link that lead me to the .308 Funny thing is I knew the guys, just didnt know they were class 3 dealers. I have been meaning to run you down as I wanted to ask you a few related questions.

How long does it take on a form 1?
Have you ever loaded for a whisper?
Any idea as to optimal barrel length?
Any idea why all the loads I have found have such a low load density?
Could I use a slower powder to get a full case and still be effective or is the small fast charge the only way to go?

 

[James Jones]

1) "eddybo" , right now it seems that the ATF is taking their sweet time with getting our paperwork processed , I've seen it take just 2 weeks and as long as 2 months a few other guys that are looking to build their own its taken around a month.

2)The only reloading I have done for the 300 whisper was on a 11.5" AR and the loads were supersonic with 110gr V-max , haven.t messed with the subsonic loads in this case.

3-4) I would say that optimum barrel length would be 16" that way your not having to pay another $200 and another form 4 to get a short barreled rifle registered. The little 221 case and the big 30 cal bore make it a pretty efficient round , of course a little longer barrel isin't gonna hurt you as long as you use the fast pistol powders , if you use the slower rifle powders you will gain velocity and bring you up into the supersonic range so then you have to drop some powder weight to bring the speed back down.. You have to use such low load density because your using very fast powder , you want the majority if not all of the powder burned in the barrel that way your not getting any excenssive burn in the can itself which is the reason that guys use the pistol powders rather than the super slow rifle powders., that brings back to the barrel length issue , if you can get 1050fps with 10grs of powder in a 16" barrel but the same load from a 24" barrel gets you 1150fps then you will have to reduce the load , this is good because you are generating less gas at a lower pressure for the can to try to bleed off which in effect will technicaly make it quieter.
Now a sub sonic bullet shot from a 16" barrel out of a well made suppressor will not be any louder than the same bullet at the same speed out of a 30" barrel becasue a well made can is desgined to bleed off and suppress MUCH more gas and pressure , what it will allow you to do is use a smaller silencer because its not having to do the work that it would on full house 308 ammo.
Any subsonic load fom a well made closed breech gun are going to be very quiet , maybe as loud as a low power bb gun or slingshot , you will be able to hear the fining pin drop and the sound of the bullets inpact will be the loudest thing.
Shoot full house 308 ammo from a bolt gun through a good suppressor and the noise will be about as loud a regular 22 long rifle load from a bolt rifle , a high power pellet rifle , generaly not as loud a smacking two small pieces of 2x4 together, and the noise is comming from a differant action than the actual gun shot , the noise is comming from a tiny sonic boom that make is very hard to pinpoint the noise if you more than 50 feet away especialy if your infront of or the side of the gun.

 

[eddybo]

Okay, I think I see the reason for the small charges...but am not sure. I ran it through quick load a while back trying to find a load and found I can stay subsonic using some slower powders. I am guessing from your response that the difference will be in the amount of gas created for the supressor to bleed off. I may try it both ways just to see how much the difference is between the faster (higher pressure, lower volume of gas) powder load versus the slower (lower pressure, higher volume of gas) powder load. I am sure there is a happy medium. Most of the loads I see have completely burned the powder within about 10 inches of barrel so that the remaining barrel is just slowing the bullet down. I want to try a load that will burn completely within say 14 inches of the 17 inch barrel. I though that it was interesting that I couldnt find any information where anyone had tried the slower powders and thought there may be a reason like detonation that I wasnt seeing.