For you MK 4 guys.

[Greyfox]

Thanks for the dicussion guys if you have more opinions please keep them coming. So what power do you all recomend. I was thinking 6.5 x 20 but maybe that is too much.

So if what I'm reading is right-- I could order a scope from leupold. I was thinkin MK 4 6.5 x 20 LR/T and sight in dead on at 200. Then use a Ballistics program with a certain load to figure out how many clicks for a certain distance. Then hold dead on? Sorry if I seem dumb.......If it matters this gun will be used for coyote hunting 95% of the time. IT also has a Lilja with a 1:8 twist.

Depending on how and where you hunt coyotes the shots can be at varied distances and too much power on the low end will put you at a disadvantage. If your shots go to 1000 yards, the 6.5x20 is good. If you are under 500 yards, the 4.5x14 might be better. I do a lot of coyote hunting in the east and the west. In the east, I actually like a 3.5x10. Out west I use a 6.5x20which is effective out to 1000 yards, but still enables you to get quick shots if I'm in an area that offers tighter shots....many times running. The low end really helps with getting on them fast. A Mildot or TMR gives a fast lead reference on running shots, or a quick windage adjustment.

 

[texan79]

Would you mind elaborating on this comment?

Certainly. The fact I was reffering to is that BDC turrets do change based on elevation, ammunition, temp etc. I realize several turrets can be obtained for different variables, but to me, the MOA turrets are much simpler with one purchase, as opposed to having to order and change turret caps based on where I hunt.

 

[Greyfox]

Certainly. The fact I was reffering to is that BDC turrets do change based on elevation, ammunition, temp etc. I realize several turrets can be obtained for different variables, but to me, the MOA turrets are much simpler with one purchase, as opposed to having to order and change turret caps based on where I hunt.

With the new G7 rangefinder from Gunwerks, you can have one BDC turret and the ballistic calculator wil correct correct for air density, angle, as well as give range. It will read both corrected yardage to use with a given turret as well as actual yardage and MOA. Good to 1400 yards. No need for multiple turrets.

 

[trigger puller]

I have a 4.5-14 that I use for varmit hunting I put a BDC turret on it from the custom shop the only problem as stated in the previous remarks is if the temp or altitude or humidity is different that what it is set up for you will have to make adjustments. I had mine set for 70 deg. in west texas the temps swings are something to see. Just get a dope card and take notes.

 

[SidecarFlip]

With the new G7 rangefinder from Gunwerks, you can have one BDC turret and the ballistic calculator wil correct correct for air density, angle, as well as give range. It will read both corrected yardage to use with a given turret as well as actual yardage and MOA. Good to 1400 yards. No need for multiple turrets.

Soon as I hit the lotto, I'll get one......

 

[Bravo 4]

Certainly. The fact I was reffering to is that BDC turrets do change based on elevation, ammunition, temp etc. I realize several turrets can be obtained for different variables, but to me, the MOA turrets are much simpler with one purchase, as opposed to having to order and change turret caps based on where I hunt.

I agree that BDC turrets are not a cure all one-stop-shop. My opinion is that they do have their place, and a turret with BDC as well as MOA (or Mil) offer the best of both worlds. However, the numbers don't have to line up to use it as a reference point. I have to do this every time we are on the range with the M24's. Like I stated earlier the BDC turrets are quick and accurate out to mid range (400yards to me). It takes a lot of changes in environmental conditions to make a noticeable change in POI differences at medium distance.

For an example I just punched the numbers into JBM for the average MV of my M110 (since it's scope turrets have both). A 175 gr SMK @ 2530 fps.
I threw in a 50 degree difference in temperature, 80% difference in humidity, and went from 28.00 in HG pressure to 31.5 in HG. The difference in POI is only a couple inches of drop...unless I'm doing something wrong. Ballistic calculators and I don't seem to get along. I know that in most conditions I can turn the BDC to 4 and hit within inches of POA (not counting wind).
Just another way to skin that darn cat.

 

[Bravo 4]

Soon as I hit the lotto, I'll get one......

I'm with ya on that one. But I don't play the lottery so I guess I'm S.O.L.!

 

[Greyfox]

I agree that BDC turrets are not a cure all one-stop-shop. My opinion is that they do have their place, and a turret with BDC as well as MOA (or Mil) offer the best of both worlds. However, the numbers don't have to line up to use it as a reference point. I have to do this every time we are on the range with the M24's. Like I stated earlier the BDC turrets are quick and accurate out to mid range (400yards to me). It takes a lot of changes in environmental conditions to make a noticeable change in POI differences at medium distance.

For an example I just punched the numbers into JBM for the average MV of my M110 (since it's scope turrets have both). A 175 gr SMK @ 2530 fps.
I threw in a 50 degree difference in temperature, 80% difference in humidity, and went from 28.00 in HG pressure to 31.5 in HG. The difference in POI is only a couple inches of drop...unless I'm doing something wrong. Ballistic calculators and I don't seem to get along. I know that in most conditions I can turn the BDC to 4 and hit within inches of POA (not counting wind).
Just another way to skin that darn cat.[/QUOTE/



My experience using a BDC is very similar to yours using my 308, which for me is a 600 yard hunting rifle. A few years ago I went to a 6.5x284 and extended my range to 1000 yards with similar effect. The two areas I hunt are 2000ft and 5000ft altitude. Temperatures are generally 25 degrees , plus or minus 20 degrees. I have two BDC turrets for 2000 and 5000ft at 25 degrees both calibrated with actual POI out to 1000 yards. For each hunting area with the turret I don't need to pay much attention to temperature or pressure out to 600 yards. From 600 to 1000 yards, click adjustments for each condition are easily memorized and accounted for and only necessary if temperature varies more than 20 degrees or altitude(corresponding pressure) more than 1000 feet. This is one or two clicks for each condition depending on the actual range ot to 1000 yards. It sounds more complicated than it is but it's not, once you understand the effects. It's all personal preference. I used MOA for years and found
that for me this system has been very effective with the hunting I do. The extra turrets cost me $200 and I have a MOA turret and ballistic calculator should I feel the need to use them. Also, I don't change my load, and have enough components of the same lot to last the life of the barrel, or my own life, whichever comes first.

 

[Bravo 4]

My experience using a BDC is very similar to yours using my 308, which for me is a 600 yard hunting rifle. A few years ago I went to a 6.5x284 and extended my range to 1000 yards with similar effect. The two areas I hunt are 2000ft and 5000ft altitude. Temperatures are generally 25 degrees , plus or minus 20 degrees. I have two BDC turrets for 2000 and 5000ft at 25 degrees both calibrated with actual POI out to 1000 yards. For each hunting area with the turret I don't need to pay much attention to temperature or pressure out to 600 yards. From 600 to 1000 yards, click adjustments for each condition are easily memorized and accounted for and only necessary if temperature varies more than 20 degrees or altitude(corresponding pressure) more than 1000 feet. This is one or two clicks for each condition depending on the actual range ot to 1000 yards. It sounds more complicated than it is but it's not, once you understand the effects. It's all personal preference. I used MOA for years and found
that for me this system has been very effective with the hunting I do. The extra turrets cost me $200 and I have a MOA turret and ballistic calculator should I feel the need to use them. Also, I don't change my load, and have enough components of the same lot to last the life of the barrel, or my own life, whichever comes first.

I agree. What it all boils down to is knowing how to use the system you have to the fullest. Where hunter/shooters get into trouble is they go out and get drops for their rifle and think they are done. If you only shoot short to mid ranges you will probably be ok for almost anything. The problem is when shooters don't know how much environmental conditions will change the flight of the bullet. How much will a 20-30 degree change in temp effect your POI? That kind of change in temp will happen almost everywhere on the planet almost every single day. So aquiring drops in the morning at long range then checking them at the hotest part of the day will give you different results. This is just an example that goes along with other changing conditions. It has to be applied no matter what your turrets have marked on them, moa/mil/BDC or a combo. The numbers on any turret are just reference marks, just like the base lines. I don't see why guys get into a little hissy over moa v's mil, my way is better then your way, blah-blah-blah. Especially when the end result is the same, you probably don't really know how to use either!

I also agree that MY .308 is only a 600 yard deer rifle. It's an auto so I don't push any limits with it velocity wise, and it averages a little better then moa with the current load. There are some guys out there getting great results at some pretty far ranges with their bolt guns and heavy loads.