I'm thinking putting a Mk4 on my custom .243. Would you guys recomend the CDS system or something else? I would like any and all feedback that you have on this. This gun will be used mainly for coyote hunting..maybe a praire dog or two. Thanks a bunch.
For you MK 4 guys.
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Mikecr
Well-Known Member
Unless you're going to use the exact same ammo/barrel for the life of the scope, bullet drop compensation is a very bad idea.
I think you should dial in MOA, and hold off for wind in inches, based on a laminated click card generated for your system.
Carry it in your pocket.
I think you should dial in MOA, and hold off for wind in inches, based on a laminated click card generated for your system.
Carry it in your pocket.
NO, you do not need the same ammo, same barrel, or same weather conditions. You need to understand your BDC and be able to compensate for it. It is much faster than dialing all of the clicks. It is just a short cut. Even the tales of being on a specific magnification for second focal length is just for the math impaired. Learn how they work, then learn to work yours.
What you do need is measured muzzle velocities and the ballistics of your rounds. Once you have those and a reasonable good computer program you can produce the cards you need for your BDC.
The US educational system is worse than I thought.
My Mark 4's all have MOA dials and either Mildot or TMR reticles. I have found that this combo gives me the greatest amount of versatility. You will have the choice of Reticle holds or dialing depending on your situation. The most important aspect is to fully understand your ballistic information an how to apply it to you scope.
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
lightwind, if your gonna compensate with a card, and dial a BDC anyway, you might as well just use a card and dial in MOA. Right?
No reason to bastardize the dials and hurt the value of the scope..
Hell, he might also want move it to another gun down the road.
Dialing MOA has not been difficult for me. If I need 35.25moa, I dial it. The turrets are marked.
No reason to bastardize the dials and hurt the value of the scope..
Hell, he might also want move it to another gun down the road.
Dialing MOA has not been difficult for me. If I need 35.25moa, I dial it. The turrets are marked.
First of all, all of the BDC turrets I have seen can be replaced if you want another load.
Second, BDC reticles are never exact anyway.
Third, there is a great reason for having a BT and dials. What you do is use the BT to get you to the nearest even measure (mine are at every 100 yards). I then dial up or down to get to the exact point I want. So, I twist to 400 yards, then click back 2 clicks to give me 389 yards. Much easier than clicking off all 23 clicks, losing track, going back to zero and clicking off 23 (maybe) again. The quick twist to line up the even marks makes it much simpler and faster to do the final few clicks.
So, I strongly disagree that dialing 35.25 by clicks is even close to twisting to 400 yards and then adjusting a couple of clicks.
What scope are you using that doesn't allow you to change BTs? If it is BRs then they are different for every load and condition anyway.
I run a Mark 4 mil/TMR. I dial or hold on reticle, if I have time and target is small I dial exact yards. With my reticule I can use holds to 825 w/200 zero.Past that I dial only takes 6.9 to get 1000, quick and easy.The cds dial is nice for packing. But short and hard to read numbers in dim light
For my shooting, at least out to 1000 yards, I agree that BDC turrets are easier and faster than dialing MOA especially in lower light. I have gone almost exclusively to adding BDC knobs to my hunting scopes, and have experienced no trade off in precision once you understand correction adjustments if needed. Since I started hunting at the longer ranges the biggest issue I have had to deal with is having enough time to get the shot off at the animal. For me a BDC is absolutely faster which allows me to use the time for determining other variables such as wind, etc.
Bullet drop compensating turrets have been around for decades. It has just now gotten to be popular, or a fad whatever you wanna call it. The Leupold CDS is just the same system as on the original 10x Ultras the Army has issued since 1988, just without the covers (I believe). Ours don't match the rounds we were issued, they have changed since the system was designed. However, the turrets are faster to me as well. You just gotta know the different adjustments. Just going off my memory and not looking at my data book, I know that under certain conditions my drop at 900 is 8+2. Turn to 8 then two more clicks (moa). The problem with this is that if you are using a ballistic calculator like Exbal, it doesn't facilitate for BDC turrets (none that I know of). There may be a system I don't know about. Maybe Gunwerks does? We just have to keep detailed written data for different conditions. The 3.5-10 Leupolds we run on the M110 have both a BDC and MOA markings, but it is mass produced and may not match 100% with that particular weapon. I like this idea if it matched that particular rifle and out then only out to medium ranges. Then you have the best of both worlds.
Thanks for the dicussion guys if you have more opinions please keep them coming. So what power do you all recomend. I was thinking 6.5 x 20 but maybe that is too much.
So if what I'm reading is right-- I could order a scope from leupold. I was thinkin MK 4 6.5 x 20 LR/T and sight in dead on at 200. Then use a Ballistics program with a certain load to figure out how many clicks for a certain distance. Then hold dead on? Sorry if I seem dumb.......If it matters this gun will be used for coyote hunting 95% of the time. IT also has a Lilja with a 1:8 twist.
So if what I'm reading is right-- I could order a scope from leupold. I was thinkin MK 4 6.5 x 20 LR/T and sight in dead on at 200. Then use a Ballistics program with a certain load to figure out how many clicks for a certain distance. Then hold dead on? Sorry if I seem dumb.......If it matters this gun will be used for coyote hunting 95% of the time. IT also has a Lilja with a 1:8 twist.
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
Go right to the 8.5x25, get the Alumina flip-ups, and the reticle you prefer, delivered straight from the custom shop(that way human hands & eyes have visited it).
Leupold Mark 4 8.5-25x50 LR/T M1 Long Range Tactical Riflescopes Personalized by Leupold Custom Shop FREE S&H 54690, 60070. Leupold Mark 4 Riflescopes, Leupold Riflescopes.
Forget Leupold bases/rings. They're too heavy.
Consider TPS: TSR Scope Rings
Or Talley one-piece: Talley Lightweight One-Piece Alloy Scope Mounts
Leupold Mark 4 8.5-25x50 LR/T M1 Long Range Tactical Riflescopes Personalized by Leupold Custom Shop FREE S&H 54690, 60070. Leupold Mark 4 Riflescopes, Leupold Riflescopes.
Forget Leupold bases/rings. They're too heavy.
Consider TPS: TSR Scope Rings
Or Talley one-piece: Talley Lightweight One-Piece Alloy Scope Mounts
texan79
Well-Known Member
I would go with the M1 dials all the way. 1/4 min adjustments are going to be more precise than the popular 1/3 min BDC turrets. And like MIkeCR stated, they are affected by altitude, and different loads. Some research will separate the fact from the fiction found in this thread.
*MikeCR, I commend your tongue holding ability.gun)
*MikeCR, I commend your tongue holding ability.gun)
Would you mind elaborating on this comment?
