First Shots out of Savage

Discussion in 'Muzzleloader Hunting' started by deertroy1, Aug 7, 2013.

  1. deertroy1

    deertroy1 Well-Known Member

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    This is the first three shots out of my new Savage 10ML-II. I know it isn't that impressive but...............I hurried up to the range just before dusk,...............I have never fired a muzzleloader before and..............this was with the factory open sights at 100yds.
    All things considered I think it's not bad. Yes I know it's shooting low but that's just a matter of a sight adjustment.
    I can't wait to get my scope aboard.
    [​IMG]
     
  2. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    I actually like to shoot my 50 CVA Optima. The recoil is much different than a centerfire, more of a push rahter than a smack.

    You don't have to worroy about shooting the barrel out like with a centerfire. The sabot rides the rifling so wear is basically non existent.

    I shoot Barnes TMZ's in 412 diameter with a plastic Sabot most times. 100 grains of Blackhorn with a CCI ML primer.
     

  3. Lefty7mmstw

    Lefty7mmstw Well-Known Member

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    I've been able to get down to a 5 shot 1.5 moa or 3 shot moa group with my black diamond 50 cal. I actually got the load from a front stuffer article in a gun rag. The guy was touting 120 grains fff 777 with the 300 grain hornady tipped pill. I tried it with my tc 1x scope on top and she shot as promised.I'm lLighting the fire with a rws musket cap. ff 777 works as well and I've proved poi with both by combining a couple of shots with each; in my rifle they will land inside 2 moa for a combined group.

    Very good starting group though; I remember a couple of front stuffers we had to WORK to get inside of 3 moa on.
     
  4. peashooter

    peashooter Well-Known Member

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    Looks like a fine group for just starting development. I shoot a 300 gr Barnes original with the MMP orange sabot. I had better results with Vht. N120 powder. keep up the good work the Savages are fun to work with.
     
  5. deertroy1

    deertroy1 Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to try N120 as Vihtavuori is easier for me to get than the Accurate Arms powders.
     
  6. peashooter

    peashooter Well-Known Member

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    I was able to get more velocity and better accuracy using N120 with the 300 gr. projectile. Vihtavouri is hard to find sometimes, but I pick it up when I see it. I also used N110 with the 250 gr projectiles with good results. In my rifle the 300 gr. Barnes is very good.
     
  7. sirsye

    sirsye Member

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    deertroy1, N-120 is a very good powder for your 300 gr. bullets. I have found 57-59 grains work best in my muzzle loaders.

    The orange mmp loads too loose in my guns and have started using Harvester short black sabots (part # H5045SB). I only use these with the Remington 300 gr bullets since they are actually a .457 bullet.

    As far as the Hornady and Barnes 300 gr., I have found Harvester black crush rib sabots work best for me.

    With the Savage, when loading your load you want a snug fitting sabot. (say around 30-40 lbs force to load). If it slides easily down the barrel, most of the time accuracy will suffer. Good luck with your new gun.
     
  8. deertroy1

    deertroy1 Well-Known Member

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    Well, I got my scope on and have been back shooting twice. Ironically I haven't gotten anything that shot as good as the above. One load shot good (left target) but there was a flyer I can't explain.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. sirsye

    sirsye Member

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    How was the loading pressure with the orange mmp sabots. I am going to guess that the 250 gr. .452's with the mmp short black sabot loaded on the firm side.

    Did the orange load quite a bit easier? If they did, try Harvester short black sabots for the Remington 300 gr. and Harvester black crush ribs with the Hornady .458's.

    Also, try some H4198 powder with the 300 gr. bullets. I would start at 63 gr. I never went above 66 grain. This powder should help you with the 300 gr. .458 bullets.
     
  10. deertroy1

    deertroy1 Well-Known Member

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    All of the bullets loaded pretty stiff. I did notice with the spent sabots I found that the black ones had all four petals remaining while the orange ones only had one petal remaining.

    I got a few Harvester sabots and I'll try them next.

    I'm a little hesitant to go with 4198 as I've read about some having miss fires. I'm going to use this mostly for late season whitetails and temps here can get down to 10F that time of year?
     
  11. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    FYI, there are a couple pill manufacturers that make sabotless pills. One is in Canada BTW. One of our shooting group shoots a sabotless pill. He like them alot. Caution, they aren't cheap.

    www.prbullet.com

    I'm presuming that the Savage is set up like a CVA, inline 209 ignition with a removable breech plug.

    My CVA is a tack driving SOB at 100 yards,. but propellant choices are limited to Blackhorn with a special breech plug or IMR white hots with the standard breech plug.
     
  12. deertroy1

    deertroy1 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I got my MMP's from Precision Bullet. The Savage uses 209 inline ignition with a removable breech plug.
     
  13. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    If thats the case (breech plug and 209 ignition), why not Barnes TMZ's (ballistic tipped pills with sabots included) in various diameters and 100 grains of Western 209 or IMR White Hots.

    I must be missing something because I don't comprehend why you'd play with different powders (and burn rates) when there is a very accurate off the shelf combination.

    The only 'fly in the ointment' I see is the breech plug must be a recessed (read counterbored) plug so the 209 is sequestered in the cavity of the plug itself to insure a complete burn.

    Maybe I am missing something or maybe I need to go buy a Savage and play with it. I have numerous Savages in centerfire calibers. I just never considered a Savage as a viable off the shelf 'front stuffer' (I like that term btw) when the Bergara barreled CVA was available, not to say that mine and (my associates) isn't modified. I modified both rifles prior to ever firing them in the interest of breech face erosion from primer wash.

    The only reason my shooting associate is using The PR's is because of the restriction on plastic sabots in some western states. Otherwise, he'd be launching the Barnes as well.

    More curious than anything I guess.
     
  14. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    Additionally, I have an ongoing philosophy about shooting paper verses shooting an animal and that simply is, shooting paper in groups is fine and it gives you a yeardstick as to where your pill is landing and grouping at various distances (and unlike a centerfire in big bore), the pill drops like a rock beyond 150 yards anyway (imagine a slice of watermelon and the outside edge is your trajectory).

    However, all animals have a kill zone, in the case of a whitetail it's about 12-16" depending on the size and how the animal presents itself to the hunter, so long as the terminal velocity is sufficent and the kinetic energy is sufficent to cause expansion and penetration of the pill into the animal, it's going down. Maybe not instantly but then a treck in the woods following a blood trail isn't always a bad thing.

    We all like to 'drill and drop' but it's not always the case.

    I use paper targets just as a yardstick. I certainly don't compare a paper print to an actually kill shot. Never have, but then, thats just me.

    Anyone of your groups is well within the kill zone of a whitetail, even the flyer. Any one of those prints will drop an animal at reasonable distance.