Firenock D and Tac issues

Discussion in 'PSE TAC 15/15i Crossbow Hunting Forum' started by Dorge, Sep 19, 2011.

  1. Dorge

    Dorge Well-Known Member

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    PSE Tac nocks are glue in for a very specific reason. The shaft is a weave shaft and it gives in many ways, some gives more than others. If the nock is not glue in (like Firenock D) when there is pressure from shooting and the specific shaft gives radically (i.e., the diameter of the shaft is allow to expand) the nock can be forced into the shaft. In case of the D nock, the battery or the circuit board can be crushed. This situation is observed not only with Firenock D but also with factory black nock that is not glue in. Many who has seen this and was told one need to glue the nock and be done.

    The gluing of the nock is not a good answer for that means one must go back to the nock that cannot lit while most PSE owner agrees that they need a lighted nock to see where the arrow goes with such a fast bow. To address this, the solution to this issue is to look at the real problem/issue here. It is not the nock that is at fault, but the shaft. Its design allow it to flex radically, so we need to control that so the shaft would not expand radically. Some research later, I believe I have the perfect fix!

    The outside diameter of the Tac-15 is 0.350". Carbon express CXL™ Pro 250 's outside diameter is 0.350" and it has a BullDog™ nock collar on it. The collar hold the back end of the shaft from expanding. I believe this is the perfect answer for controlling the Tac shaft from expanding. Like all Firenock application with bull dog collar, it is imperative that one must glue the collar onto the shaft or the Firenock will be decapitated when shot into hard object due to the movement of the collar.

    It is better to install the collar first if you decide to use it. The collar added a full 1 mm to the length of the shaft. If the extreme shock end cap was installed first then the bull dog collar was added later, the depth of the extreme shock end cap would be 1 mm too deep which would allow the circuit board room to move! At 405 fps impact, it can spell disaster! If you already installed the extreme shock end cap, make sure you added a tiny piece of paper to the bottom of the battery or anything that you can add to pick up that space so NOTHING moves!

    Case in point, my customer Rodger Peck just send me the picture below. Please make sure your bolt is the latest as they do feel tighter with Firenock D than the one PSE make 1.5 year ago. If you remotely feel that the nock is not tight on the shaft, using the Carbon Express CXL bulldog collar as discussion above. Installing the bull dog collar on the back of the shaft will guarantee to eliminate the possibility of the nock being push into the shaft issue. Please be careful and take all precaution.

    Please also note that if the nock is not totally sit flush with the shaft this can also happen. After discussion with PSE regional manager, it is confirm that he is able to reproduce this when the Firenock D is not totally sit flush on the shaft. i.e. a little gap between the nock and the shaft will also cause this.
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Hunter38

    Hunter38 New Member

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    Thanks for this information. Where can we purchase these BullDog™ nock collars at? Sounds like they aren't needed for the new TAC 15 arrows? Or would you recommend using them for insurance?
     

  3. Dorge

    Dorge Well-Known Member

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    For those who wanted them, they can go to their carbon express dealer and ask for the CXL 250 spare parts as the CXL 250 has the same outside diameter as the Tac arrow. For those who think they are fine, I would have to agree as I sold quite a few D nock since February 2011 and only see a few of this. Therefore for most customer who user Firenock D, they do not need this, but for the "FEW" who does, at least you know why you needed it.

    Dorge (815) 780-1695
     
  4. jon.henry755

    jon.henry755 Well-Known Member

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    Hi Dorge,
    I believe I have already posted much of this same information in a number of my threads. As you're probably aware both myself and Super 91 have been recommending that TAC15 owners should be switching to the "Firenock D's" and using the Carbon Express CXL 250 Bulldog Nock Collars for both added strength against back-end impacts and to maintain arrow shaft integrity.

    I haven't damaged or ruined one single arrow since I began using this combination a couple of months ago and I have a few hundred shots on my arrows.

    it doesn't make sense to spend $90 per half dozen on your arrows and not spend $5 to keep them from quickly getting destroyed. The Bull Dog Collars are very inexpensive and are easily glued in place using a regular "Epoxy" cement. That's not the fast setting epoxy, it's the slow setting epoxy.

    Regards,

    Jon
     
  5. Dorge

    Dorge Well-Known Member

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    Hi Jon

    I know you did, but when you saw a few more customer not doing the same thing, may be a 2nd post is all they need to see it. I have posted it on many forum as you can imagine, not all come to a great site like Long Range Hunting. Some only visit sites like ArcheryTalk, or CrossBow nations, etc.

    Dorge
     
  6. jon.henry755

    jon.henry755 Well-Known Member

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    Hi Dorge,
    Not sure where you stand lately on the development of your new Arrows, but if they are not to far off, you might want to say something about the long term permanent solution to these arrow problems?

    Not to many TAC owners are very happy with the PSE arrows and the problems are getting worse instead of better.
     
  7. Hunter38

    Hunter38 New Member

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    Hi guys,
    Im uncertain if the collars are needed now or not? I am very new to the TAC world and would like to add the lighted nocks. But I'm seeing and reading lots of info that is not good. Maybe a lot of it is older information but I would like to add the collars if they are needed. If they are not I won't spend the money. But I agree that at $90 for six I want them to last as long as possible.
    Thanks-again.
     
  8. Dorge

    Dorge Well-Known Member

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    For the price of 3 bull dog collar, I think it is the cheapest insurance. So for safety sake, I would just add them on.

    Yes, Jon, I am in the middle of getting Aerobolt 2 done. They will come in 3 series and 3 lengths.

    Aerobolt 2-1 : Spine is 300 at the back, and 100 at the front
    Aerobolt 2-2 : Spine is 250 at the back, and 80 at the front
    Aerobolt 2-3 : Spine is 220 at the back, and 60 at the front

    All 3 comes in 26", 22" and 20"

    Have 0.002" concentric insert (going to be call AeroInsert) available in stainless and 7075-T6. With the AeroPoint, you are able to be with 0.002" concentric every time you put in the point or AeroInsert compliance broad head (Yes, there are going to be broadhead manufacturing using my technology by next year. I have one sign on with the program already)

    I personally believe the Aerobolt 2-2/26"/AL would be ideal for Tac15. It is going to be not cheap; sorry. Think $20-22 each with no nock! For Africa plain game the AB2/26"/SS would be the ticket! As it is beyond durable.
     
  9. whoopass800

    whoopass800 Member

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    Hmmm, If the TAC arrow is 0.350", would it not require the CXL 350 nock collar. I purchased the collars recommended above and they are no where close to fitting on the TAC arrows. I can't seen to get a solid answer about the size required as very few shops know anything about the TAC 15. Please help here, verify and clarify this once and for all. Which nock collars do fit our TAC arrows.
     
  10. jon.henry755

    jon.henry755 Well-Known Member

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    Hi Whoopasd800,
    The correct size mock collars for the TAC15 arrows by PSE are the Carbon Express CXL 250's. If using any different arrow shafts, I can't tell you what size might or might not fit.

    Regards,

    Jon
     
  11. Dorge

    Dorge Well-Known Member

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    The Tac arrow OD is 0.350" You need a bull dog collar that have the same ID.