Fireforming the 6.5 Gibbs

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Ridge Runner, Oct 14, 2007.

  1. Ridge Runner

    Ridge Runner Well-Known Member

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    Dec 13, 2002
    what fireform loads do y'all use? I blew another primer today and got a face full of powder residue, this makes 2 just fireforming. The first one broke the extractor.
    I'm using the reccomended load from the guy who built the action,
    (necked for a crush fit, 54 gr H-4831/140 gr bullet)
    I tried a batch with cornmeal but the necks end up thicker with that method.
    Is there a way I can tell if I'm under pressure or over?
    would mid-level 6.5/06 loads be ok to fireform with? anybody got any ideas?
    RR
     
  2. Ridge Runner

    Ridge Runner Well-Known Member

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    Now I'm really confused, hodgdon's data for the 6.5/06 with a 140 and H-4831 says 49.5 max load
    But for the 270 win and 140 gr/H-4831 it lists 58.0C as a max load
    RR
     

  3. Sam11

    Sam11 Active Member

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    Jan 13, 2005
    Hello: To start with I use 142 gr. SMK for fireforming and regular loads and both at COL = 3.445". The first time I had used 54.0 gr. H4831SC to fireform my 6.5 Gibbs and it was too hot. It made the primer pockets just a little bit loose. I dropped down to 52.0 gr. H4831SC for fireforming and it seems to be OK. Cases are formed good. For my regular loads I use 58.0 gr. H1000 but I hadn't check the velocity on that load. I had checked 59.0 gr. H1000 at 3,075 fps. I don't need the high end velocity and am trying to extend case life. You mentioned confusion on the lower powder loads for the 6.5-06 vs. the 270. It has something to do with the smaller diameter causing higher pressures even in the same basic case. Someone else who is smart could probably tells us why. I found out (almost the hard way) in trying to develop loads for my 6.5-300 Wby. by reasoning 300 Wby. loads and bullet weights would be the same for the 6.5-300. Well, no, it don't work that way. Real high pressure. Thankfully no damage, just a real tight bolt. Good thing I am very conservative when developing loads. By the way I really like my 6.5 Gibbs. It shoots great. Hope this helps. Sam.
     
  4. Ridge Runner

    Ridge Runner Well-Known Member

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    I used the 54 gr with rem and win cases, this batch is nosler, after fireforming I can get around 3250 fps with a number of powders with a 140 A-max. I got 3250 fps with 67 gr of H-1000 with no pressure signs whats-so-ever, and 60 gr of re22. mine shoots ok, it still needs a bit of work, shot a 300 yd group yesterday off a bipod with no rear bag that went 1.6", just trying to figure out how to make cases without having to neck turn. thanks for your response
    RR
     
  5. Dave in Idaho

    Dave in Idaho Well-Known Member

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    Mar 2, 2003
    Ridge Runner,
    I have used the 56.0 gr of H-1000 with a 140 gr bullet with good results as well as the tried and true magnum primer, 8.0gr of Unique, fill the case with cream of wheat to the neck and firmly seat some toilet paper on the top. Cases come out very good! Clean thoroughly after this method!
    I do turn all my necks prior to fireforming.
    Dave
     
  6. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    Jul 29, 2004
    Fire forming

    I recomend reduceing a standard load only 5% for fire forming

    And also always seat the bullet at least 50 thousandth,s or more
    Off the lands.

    Check the fired brass and see if a 6.5 bullet will go in the neck, If not
    necks may be to long (This will also cause over pressure with normal
    loads) or to thick and need thinning down.

    Try to find the problem before shooting any more rounds to prevent
    injury to your self or to the bolt face.

    J E CUSTOM
     
  7. Ridge Runner

    Ridge Runner Well-Known Member

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    Thanks dave, my cases came out ok, with the cornmeal or cow method, I used 11 gr of unique, cci 450? primer and 140's, but since I'm necking down with a fl sizer the necks were a bit uneven, and thicker when I used cow vs. a bullet, my only guess was that using a bullet pulled more brass from the neck to form the shoulder than the cow load, after fireforming I turned the necks down to .010, guess I'll go back to that method.
    Thanks to all for the info
    RR
     
  8. BillR

    BillR Well-Known Member

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    Feb 28, 2002
    I'm fireforming from .25-06 to a .282 tight neck .25-06 AI. I'm starting with .30-06 Lake City 57 brass I have had for a long time. I also am using a .010 neck. One thing I found doing all this was that when I first began I was loosing about 20% of my cases. I now might loose 1 in 30. I also had trouble with necks getting thicker with the cow method and abandoned that one quickly.
    This is what I am now doing once the case's have been resized down to .25-06.
    First I resize to make sure all the necks are tight enough to hold a bullet. Then I trim the necks for length and thickness. If I don't do it this way I end up with necks that are really off on the gauge for concentricity and the bullets are not concentric either.
    Then I anneal the cases. Thats what keeps the cases from blowing for me as they become workhardened. I had trouble with the necks springing back and not holding bullets which it took me a while to figure that I needed to anneal the neck to stop this and also to keep from blowing the cases while fireforming.
    The load I was using 54 grains of 4831SC with a Serria gameking bullet 100 grains. Same load I was using for accuracy with the .25-06.
    After fireforming the cases sometimes need to be trimmed for length but thats about it. The sholders are nice and even and a sharp edge rather than the rounded sholder or uneven sholder I was getting before with the COW.
    Plus I got to have a lot of fun shooting the gun while fireforming. Loads were very accurate even out to 400 yds so I had a good time doing it.
    Using the thin necks I also find that I need to be careful and anneal fairly often or that old brass becomes hardened again and I start loosing them. Primer pockets are tight and never lost a case yet from them loosening up. I also haven't lost a case since I started using this method.
    I'm building a 6MM Rem Ackley Improved with a tight neck and I intend on using the same method for fireforming for it too. Spent too much time learning this one to quit it.
     
  9. Ridge Runner

    Ridge Runner Well-Known Member

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    Thats what I'm guessing the problem is, my fireformed cases only measure .290 necks are .015" thick so thats leaving only .260 for a .264 bullet to get out.
    Guess the nosler brass can't handle the pressures as well as the rem or win. so I'll use COW and turn necks.
    RR
     
  10. Wild_Bill

    Wild_Bill Well-Known Member

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    Sep 15, 2005
    what primers?

    hi what primers are you using? I have wreaked 3 Steyr bolts with a batch of remington primers both steyr rifles . one a ssg realy pissed off and with 2gr under max loads. use a cci or fed 215 primer for forming and back your loads down to 6.5/284 starting loads.

    Cheers Bill
    Australia


     
  11. Boss Hoss

    Boss Hoss Well-Known Member

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    Trick I learned from Speedy and he has done hundreds of thousands thousand this way and I have done a couple of thousand myself. Fill 3/4 with bullseye and put a piece of cotton ball in the end to hold the powder. Pull the trigger---could not be easier.