Fire forming ?

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by RedTailx, Jun 11, 2014.

  1. RedTailx

    RedTailx Member

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    Any body have a formula for fire forming .308 using 4064?
    Or recommendations where to look.

    Every thread I have searched always winds up with people getting off topic and into " you should just load such and such way".

    I have my reasons for wanting to fire form new unfired brass for my .308

    Thanks
     
  2. USCGLongBow

    USCGLongBow Well-Known Member

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    Are you talking fire-form with Cream of Wheat or Bullets? I'm gonna assume bullets for now, because 4064 would be really slow for fireforming 308 brass with Cream of Wheat. Depending on how extreme your fire-form is, I would maybe just start with a lighter load for fire-forming then a normal load after that. When I have fireformed to a new chamber in the past I have just picked a lightweight bullet, then put it over a small charge of the fastest powder I had available for that cartridge. I took a quick look in my Hornady manual and it says a normal start load of 42.5gr of IMR 4064 for a 130gr bullet. But this might not be safe if your chamber has been extremely modified.
     

  3. RedTailx

    RedTailx Member

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    Cream of wheat, Toilet paper, anything except bullets. 4064 and varget is all I have available. All the bullets I have are bergers, and now all the brass I have is factory new lapua. All the data I have is off formed brass and I don't wanna waste the powder and bullets .
     
  4. jfseaman

    jfseaman Well-Known Member

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    Yes please, an explanation of the COW method.

    I need it for the 26 Nosler wildcat.

    BTW the shotgun/pistol powders seem to be readily available.
     
  5. RedTailx

    RedTailx Member

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    its not that I cannot get pistol or shotty powder, I would just like to use what's on hand.
     
  6. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

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    Why would you COW form .308 brass for your .308 gun? That's stupid. Just load it up and shoot it. I've gotten 1/8 MOA groups from loads using new virgin Lapua brass that wasn't formed to my chamber...

    The only time you're going to need to use any special method of fire-forming is when you go to an Ackley Improved, or an improved, or a different caliber using different brass...

    Sorry if I sound like an ass, I'm not trying to be, but you have a misinformed opinion of fire-forming brass, and how much it can affect accuracy.

    It's just like going to a store and buying factory loaded ammo in your caliber, then going and shooting it. Same principal. Accuracy has to do with alot more important factors than whether or not your brass is fire-formed to your chamber. Don't get me wrong, it CAN affect accuracy very slightly, but to the average shooter, they'll never notice a difference.

    Hell, I've gotten 1/2" groups @ 100 yards when I was fire-forming my necked-down .270 brass to form in my .25-06 AI chamber...
     
  7. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

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    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrzAYk6D8yE]260AI Ackley Improved Cream of Wheat Fireforming Brass - YouTube[/ame]
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex6GaqvTQLw]Fire-forming Brass Cases (The Cream Of Wheat method).wmv - YouTube[/ame]
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiF6OoPiuvM]Reloading Ammunition for Rifles. Fire Forming: The Cream of Wheat Method. Part 1 - YouTube[/ame]
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHsVv-7r_9I]Reloading Ammunition for Rifles. Fire Forming: The Cream of Wheat Method. Part 2 - YouTube[/ame]
     
  8. reeldawg

    reeldawg Well-Known Member

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    +1 on what mud said. I just got my 6.5 Sherman and had to fireform brass from 270 Win. It was really pretty simple. I used 13 grains of high score 800x, fiiled it up with cream of wheat shoved a piece of paper towel in the end. If you live a neighborhood I wouldn't shoot it in your back yard:D

    Jay
     
  9. RedTailx

    RedTailx Member

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    Its all good
    I'm trying to establish an ES number for some 190 loads
    I get 10 fps over 10 rounds with my 168 load, it goes to 23 on new brass
    To each their own
     
  10. USCGLongBow

    USCGLongBow Well-Known Member

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    I could be wrong, but my guess is you wouldn't get the effects of caseforming using a reduced load of 4046. The reason is the powder burn rate is slow enough that it would propel your COW out of the barrel before building enough pressure to change your case dimensions. I'm thinking you would need almost a case of powder to do it, which means you won't have any COW in the case, and the lack of weighted projectile will keep the powder from having enough time to build pressure. You could try it, but I think you would have the same dimensions as virgin brass. Good luck man
     
  11. reeldawg

    reeldawg Well-Known Member

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    I wanted to try a rifle powder I had. Every body I talked to and every thing I read said pistol/shotgun powder.
     
  12. tbrice23

    tbrice23 Well-Known Member

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    One pound of bullseye will last a loooong time and many many new barrels worth of fireformed brass. I used to do it to all new brass but don't worry a lot about it anymore. Only Belted magnums get the treatment now. It averages 25% FULL case capacity of bullseye and the rest COW ( I use oatmeal in the blender on liquefy) to get it as good as it will ever get doing it this way.
    Best FF method there is jammed bullets and moderate loads + new brass = tiny groups also.