Finally got lucky

Discussion in 'Equipment Discussions' started by Varmint Hunter, May 20, 2006.

  1. Varmint Hunter

    Varmint Hunter Well-Known Member

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    I always read about guys who buy new factory rifles that shoot groups so small that they rival some of my custom rigs. I was a bit skeptical to hear from the shooters who claimed to get .5 moa from a factory rifle, but who knows?

    In my experience, a factory rifle usually shoots 1 - 1.5 MOA and considering how inexpensiove a factory rifle is,that ain't bad. I often wonder how the big companies can manufacture a receiver, a barrel, a stock & a trigger and then make it all work together for what they charge.

    Well, I finally got a chance to shoot my new 700 LSS, 300 RUM from the bench today. I picked a load at random (87.0gr H1000 behind a 200gr SMK @ .015" off rifling) and fired 1 round into the embankment to foul the cleaned bore. Then I fired 3 shots at the 2" orange dot from my bench which is 200yds away.

    Leaned over to take a peek through my spotting scope and noticed 3 holes in a perfect triangle. They measured 1.125". Not bad for 200yds, I thought. Shot 3 more and they measured 1.00" exactly.

    The only change to this rifle was a reworked trigger. When I originally removed the barreled action from the stock I noticed that there wasn't a spec of bedding componnd anywhere. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif I expected this big magnum to shoot 3-4" or more @ the 200yd line.

    Although I couldn't be happier with the results, I was expecting to have to at least bed the rifle and lap the lugs. I was also ready to drop on a custom barrel if it was necessary.

    For now, I don't think I'll do anything except shoot it. Boy did I get lucky with this rifle. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  2. Eaglet

    Eaglet Well-Known Member

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    Varmint Hunter,
    From my own experience with my 700 LSS 300 RUM and what I have heard and read, there is a trend of high consistency in accuracy with the 700 LSS 300 RUM. My first 3 shots group at 100 yards with factory ammo grouped less than 0.2", there was a guy at the rifle range that I had previously talked to, and asked him to sign the target as a witness and he did... I wish I knew where that target is... then I went home and did some reloading 0.050 away from the lands, went back to the range and... 0.169 " 3 shots using Barnes triple shock. This last group was smaller but not by much!
    Happy for you, enjoy that rifle, good luck!!!
     

  3. ColonialBuff

    ColonialBuff Well-Known Member

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    Take the money and run.
     
  4. Varmint Hunter

    Varmint Hunter Well-Known Member

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    GEEEEZ Eaglet - You've got to have the best shooting factory stick that i"ve ever heard of. I 'd offer to trade so we can see if you could do it again with my rifle, but mine is for southpaws. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

    Good shootin'
     
  5. remingtonman_25_06

    remingtonman_25_06 Well-Known Member

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    Well my LSS 300 RUM was very accurate back in its prime days of barrel life. It would shoot 4" groups at 800 yards off the bench. It would also do .5" at 100 yards. All I had done was trigger work and glass bed. I bought my dad one a year later, all thats done is trigger work. At best its a .75 rifle, more like MOA, but with factory thats still ok I guess. My winchester 25-06 has shot a .043" 3 shot group and its only got trigger work. It will easily shoot .3-.4" at 100 yards. My rem adl .222 rem is also factory with nothign more then a trigger job and it will shoot under .25" at 100 yards, have several groups in the low .1's. I think my factory rifles shoot ok, but I still wish I had something with a custom barrel.
     
  6. Eaglet

    Eaglet Well-Known Member

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    VH,
    I'm getting close to be 52 y/o, I have only been able to afford factory rifles since my youth, have never had a rifle this accurate before. Now my groups are getting larger but I figure it's getting close to 500 rounds through it and I'm just not getting younger. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I want to assure you I'm not good enough to consistantly do that kind of shooting. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
    If I clean it every 10 rounds, it'll be consistant to right around 1/2". GG once told me what to do to get the barrel smoother and I have just not gotten to it.
     
  7. JD338

    JD338 Well-Known Member

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    VH,

    Congratulations on your M700 LSS 300 RUM, she is a keeper.
    I also have a M700 LSS in 338 RUM. My best group with the 210 gr PT is 1.285" @ 300 yds. The scope is a VXIII 2.5x8.

    Regards,

    JD338
     
  8. Desert Fox

    Desert Fox Well-Known Member

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    Talking about lucky. Here's the first 10 shot group at 100 yards while breaking-in the barrel of my 300 Winchester Magnum Model 70 Laredo LRH. The first two was high and about an inch apart. The last eight shot below was after retigthening of the action screw to 65 inch/lb. The load is 180 grain Sierra SP, 76 grain of IMR 7828 on a virgin Federal Gold medal brass and 215M match primer.
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Ian M

    Ian M Well-Known Member

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    I recently wrote this as a column, thought you might enjoy another perspective:

    DEGREES OF ACCURACY

    Rifle accuracy is an interesting topic since we all have different opinions on what it is. I know people who fire three shots at a paper target at one hundred yards and if two hit anywhere on the paper they consider the rifle ready to go. I also know individuals who expect every bullet to be touching or overlapping in their one hundred yard groups.

    First, we should define accuracy. I am talking real world accuracy in terms that hunters can relate to. Seems in recent years the magic minute of angle that used to be the standard has shrunk to “a half inch at one hundred yards”. Matter of fact I hear a lot of three-eights and quarter-inch groups being casually mentioned in the gun shops. When I look at gun-test articles at the local magazine vendor I am literally in awe of the accuracy claimed by some writers. Five-shot groups averaging 0.12345” are not uncommon these days!

    I shoot a lot. Probably more than most guys I know, including a lot of writers. For some reason I have a tough time averaging one-inch groups with most rifles I test. Matter of fact many groups I shoot average closer to two inches. That happens in perfect weather, with a four-hundred dollar rifle rest system, from a concrete shooting bench with a good scope in good mounts. Maybe it’s the Regina water, but I can’t shoot consistent “half-inch” groups for the life of me.

    So what kind of accuracy do I get? Most factory rifles, right out of the box, shoot around two to three inches with factory ammo. Some will not come close to that mark despite trying several makes of ammo. Find ammo the rifle likes and this can shrink down to the inch mark if you are lucky. I am talking sporter-weight bolt rifles primarily since I rarely shoot pumps, lever-actions or semi-autos.

    Heavy varmint rifles will shoot better but rarely to their potential. Most rifles today suffer from triggers that prevent good shooting. I also doubt that more than seven seconds is spent on the bedding, despite the fact that bedding is so crucial to accuracy. Winchester, Remington, Savage, Sako, Tikka and Weatherby heavy barrels can be incredibly accurate, reliable performers if you happen to get lucky. Seems that Sako and Tikka require less luck than the U.S. brands with the exception of Weatherbys, particularly Vanguards.

    What do I mean by getting lucky? Some rifles are tack-drivers right out of the box. I believe that the odds are strongly against this happening with most brands. One exception is the Weatherby Vanguard MOA model. They are amazingly accurate, but then a real live human being has shot each one to ensure standards are met!

    So what is good accuracy today? Here are some numbers – they are only numbers but they work for me. I am talking one hundred yard five shot groups with rifles as described. Quality scopes properly mounted are a given. Factory or handloads as indicated. This is an average of four five-shot groups.

    Lightweight bolt action hunting rifles should shoot inside three inches out of the box with factory ammo. Find the right ammo and this will shrink to two inches or less. Reload for this rifle and you might approach the one to one and one-half inch mark. Glass-bed and have the trigger pull improved to a crisp three or four pounds and you should get into the one inch mark for five shots and the rifle should stay there.

    Heavy varminters should shoot into two inches out of the box, hopefully better. Find the right ammo and this can go below an inch. Reloading will probably ensure sub one-inch groups. Bed and do a trigger job and the rifle should shoot handloads from one-half to one inch consistently. Some rifles will create groups that are significantly better than one-half inch, but try to do that four or five times in succession.

    How does this compare with custom-built rifles? My GA Precision rifles shoot inside one half inch with factory loaded Black Hills Match ammo all day long IF I am up to the challenge. They will beat that accuracy if I do a bunch of tedious handloading chores – with one-quarter to one half-inch groups not un-common. Fact is, so are one and one half inch groups if I shank one because of lack of concentration on the basics of marksmanship.

    I have some semi-custom rifles that are significantly more accurate than factory models. The Cooper Phoenix is just plain amazing. Point that sucker right and the bullets pile-up on one another. My H-S Precision rifle also makes their one-half inch accuracy guarantee easily. Although the rifle is a varminter I carry it on deer hunts with ease.

    I have shot several Dakota rifles recently that were also solid sub-half minute shooters. Dakota does things right with Lilja barrels and incredibly precise actions and bedding.

    Now let’s go back to factory rifles. The best shooting factory rifles that I have encountered recently have been the Vanguard MOA models, in calibers right up to .300 Weatherby. At a recent Weatherby writer seminar I managed to put three factory one-eighty grain rounds into exactly one inch with an out of the box Vanguard. This was at two hundred yards! What makes the MOA so accurate – one remarkably simple fact. They are hand-selected during the final accuracy assessment. Put the really hot shooters aside and market them as such – that is a clever idea isn’t it!

    Another rifle that continually amazes me is the Thompson Center Encore. I have shot Encores shoulder to shoulder with some very expensive custom-built rifles on prairie dog shoots. And held my own. Matter of fact my Encores kicked-butt on one occasion against someone shooting a rifle valued at over eight thousand bucks! I understand that the Encore is about to get even better.

    Rifle accuracy ranges from “minute of eyeball” to “minute of deer”, depending on the individual’s standards. Bottom line for me is that most factory rifles can be significantly improved by having the lawyer-proof triggers corrected. Add a skim-bedding job that will hold the barreled-action consistently into the stock and accuracy will usually improve significantly.

    There is one other secret to accuracy that just plain works. Get out there and pull the trigger. Learn from your misses so that you can prevent bad shots. Stay with the basics of breathing, trigger control, natural point of aim and effective rests. Learn to shoot in wind. Matter of fact we should practice in lousy weather and shoot from improvised field positions as much as possible. I have never heard of a deer being shot from a bench-rest. I do keep hearing about half-inch groups with out of the box rifles and factory ammo. Sure wish I could do that
     
  10. duckinalaska

    duckinalaska Well-Known Member

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    I have several semi-customs that I handload for and are very accurate. One of my most accurate rifles is a plain Jane weatherby vanguard in 300 wby. The crazy thing about it is the fact that it shoots cheap ol' 180 grain remington core lokts in sub half inch groups. That's just crazy!!
     
  11. Eaglet

    Eaglet Well-Known Member

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    Ian,

    [ QUOTE ]
    I do keep hearing about half-inch groups with out of the box rifles and factory ammo. Sure wish I could do that


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Good article!
    Just keep wishing my friend, it'll happen one of this days! I used to feel the same way. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    Desert Fox,
    Nice shooting!