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<blockquote data-quote="Gord0" data-source="post: 1477724" data-attributes="member: 99696"><p>I copied this from Broz on long-range only as I share many of the same viewpoints, and he wrote it much better than I could have.</p><p></p><p>I have not done the Mil/mil but I sure have owned and experienced many FFP's. I went back to SFP and if I had to use a FFP for hunting you could not give me one. </p><p></p><p>Different strokes. But before anyone reads this and goes and spends more for the FFP look through one first. Turn it to low power and see that in many scopes you will not be able to distinguish the small reticle subtensions at all. On many, like the PST 6~24, below 10X all subtensions become useless. So the hype about having calibrated subtensions on all power settings just lost some credit in my book. As 1/2 of you power settings they are to small to see. This is especially bad as the low powers would be where you would have your scope set for quick acquisition of a closer target and a hold over would be a quicker choice. Also if you turn down magnification and go in dark timber you could have a problem seeing the reticle at all. Now FFP advocates will say, "turn on the ILL ret." Ok but when you do that many times it will only produce a red glare so as you are adjusting the intensity for that given lighting the elk just slipped away or you buddy shot him with a SFP utilizing a reticle visible in all lighting that always looks the same. Also, some long range and ELR shooters and hunters prefer a thinner reticle for fine aim points at long range. The FFP's I have owned and used were usable but surely not my favorite for the long shots where I aim small.</p><p></p><p>The fact that a FFP reticle remains constant at all magnification settings is true. But this is not all good in all scenarios. Know that a SFP scope with a reticle that offers a 20 moa hold over at 24X will also offer 40 moa hold over at 12 X or 1/2 magnification since SFP reticle subtensions are times 2 on 1/2 power. So lets look at that closely. The fear of a hold over being off if the reticle is not on full power is a main argument for FFP. Even though I tend to use my reticle on full magnification most of the time, lest just say I screw up and have it on 18 instead of 24. 18 being 1/2 way to where the reticle doubles on a SFP. If my SFP scope has 1 moa subtensions at 24 X and 2 moa at 12 X then at 18 X they would be 1.5 MOA. That would put me exactly .5 moa off from my huge screw up with my SFP scope. .5 moa at 500 yards is 2.5 inches. Hmmmm, don't think the deer would care, even the coyote would be in trouble. OK, even though we will most always be on full power at 1000, and most of us would dial the wind at that distance, lets say we for some reason we cranked it back to 18 again and forgot. Well at 1000 yards this screw up of mine with my SFP reticle would equal a mis hold on the wind of .5 moa or 5" at 1000 yards. again I say the deer would be in trouble and the coyote maybe. These facts are the reason I do not agree with all that said and some of the fear that has been imposed about SFP reticles and reticle calibration.</p><p></p><p>Please,Don't anyone take my word for this, and I'm not trying to start this old debate again. But just take a look for yourself, do your own math, and decide what you want for your personal application. </p><p></p><p>Whal1678, nothing personal at all and Sir you are fully entitled to your personal opinion and preferences. It is just a topic with more than one side to it. We at LRO are striving for well supported data so I wanted to offer a view from the SFP side.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Gord0, post: 1477724, member: 99696"] I copied this from Broz on long-range only as I share many of the same viewpoints, and he wrote it much better than I could have. I have not done the Mil/mil but I sure have owned and experienced many FFP's. I went back to SFP and if I had to use a FFP for hunting you could not give me one. Different strokes. But before anyone reads this and goes and spends more for the FFP look through one first. Turn it to low power and see that in many scopes you will not be able to distinguish the small reticle subtensions at all. On many, like the PST 6~24, below 10X all subtensions become useless. So the hype about having calibrated subtensions on all power settings just lost some credit in my book. As 1/2 of you power settings they are to small to see. This is especially bad as the low powers would be where you would have your scope set for quick acquisition of a closer target and a hold over would be a quicker choice. Also if you turn down magnification and go in dark timber you could have a problem seeing the reticle at all. Now FFP advocates will say, "turn on the ILL ret." Ok but when you do that many times it will only produce a red glare so as you are adjusting the intensity for that given lighting the elk just slipped away or you buddy shot him with a SFP utilizing a reticle visible in all lighting that always looks the same. Also, some long range and ELR shooters and hunters prefer a thinner reticle for fine aim points at long range. The FFP's I have owned and used were usable but surely not my favorite for the long shots where I aim small. The fact that a FFP reticle remains constant at all magnification settings is true. But this is not all good in all scenarios. Know that a SFP scope with a reticle that offers a 20 moa hold over at 24X will also offer 40 moa hold over at 12 X or 1/2 magnification since SFP reticle subtensions are times 2 on 1/2 power. So lets look at that closely. The fear of a hold over being off if the reticle is not on full power is a main argument for FFP. Even though I tend to use my reticle on full magnification most of the time, lest just say I screw up and have it on 18 instead of 24. 18 being 1/2 way to where the reticle doubles on a SFP. If my SFP scope has 1 moa subtensions at 24 X and 2 moa at 12 X then at 18 X they would be 1.5 MOA. That would put me exactly .5 moa off from my huge screw up with my SFP scope. .5 moa at 500 yards is 2.5 inches. Hmmmm, don't think the deer would care, even the coyote would be in trouble. OK, even though we will most always be on full power at 1000, and most of us would dial the wind at that distance, lets say we for some reason we cranked it back to 18 again and forgot. Well at 1000 yards this screw up of mine with my SFP reticle would equal a mis hold on the wind of .5 moa or 5" at 1000 yards. again I say the deer would be in trouble and the coyote maybe. These facts are the reason I do not agree with all that said and some of the fear that has been imposed about SFP reticles and reticle calibration. Please,Don't anyone take my word for this, and I'm not trying to start this old debate again. But just take a look for yourself, do your own math, and decide what you want for your personal application. Whal1678, nothing personal at all and Sir you are fully entitled to your personal opinion and preferences. It is just a topic with more than one side to it. We at LRO are striving for well supported data so I wanted to offer a view from the SFP side. [/QUOTE]
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