Fav powder for a 6-284 29" barrel

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by carverelli, May 13, 2011.

  1. carverelli

    carverelli Active Member

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    So far the best accuracy I've got with 107 gr sierra mk is with H1000 55 gr but I'm only at 3150 fps from my 29 " lilja.

    Is there a better powder suited to my outfit? I've tried rl22 53 gr and it's too hot with 95% capacity
     
  2. TH

    TH Well-Known Member

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    I would use R22 drop it down to 52 grains. I shoot the 107 smk at 3400 out of a 32 inch barrel. Use a standard 210 match primer
     

  3. JUDD

    JUDD Well-Known Member

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    I shot Retumbo out of mine. I was getting best accuracy with the 115vld at 3175 but have run them up to 3300 fps.

    This was out of a 32" 8 twist Broughton 5C
     
  4. carverelli

    carverelli Active Member

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    before my rechamber job(the smith throated my chamber too far) i used 56.5 gr rl 22 and while it was hot the bigger problem was the bullet coming apart.

    My primers I used were cci br2. I'll try reducing it(rl22) and see. The h1000 is producing super accuracy. I recently joined a shooting range while I'm out of town working and I finally have the place and the time to shoot this rifle I put together in 2003. This week I shot out to 700 yards, and trying to build a drop chart. I'm guessing Im getting around 3100-3200 fps and right at 1/2 moa. at 300 2 shots were almost touching then they started to open up. 400 - 2". 500 - 3.5". 600- 3 5/8" 700 -4".

    It was late afternoon with a breeze quartering away from right to left about 5-8 mph. The mirage was pretty bad. It seemed as though the target was floating. This weekend Im gonna load up some more and shoot next week at 5:30 am and see if I can shrink those groups up some.
    My scope is a nightforce benchrest 12-42x. I may think about selling it and replacing with a comporable Leupold with the side focus knob. I have one and really like it.
     
  5. TH

    TH Well-Known Member

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    Nothing wrong with those groups. You might want to try new brass. After 56 grains of R22 I do not see those cases holding up. Let us know your results next week at the range.
     
  6. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Totally suprised you had the 107 gr SMK come apart. I built myself a 30" Lilja barreled rifle with a 1-8, 3 groove barrel. About the hardest barrel there is on match bullets. I cut my throat very long as this is a single shot rifle. Base of bullet shank seated flush with base of neck.

    My standard load for three seasons was 57.0 gr RL-22 which was good for 3580 fps. Yes, thats correct, 3580 fps average and velocity spreads were in the mid teens. Accuracy with this rifle was outstanding. The harder I drove them, the better it got. It would EASILY beat 1/2 moa and generally ran in the 1/4 moa range out to 500 yards. Past that, in good conditions, it was not hard to hold 1/2 moa.

    Never once did I ever have a bullet failure. After three seasons the bore was starting to get some serious heat cracking for the first 7-8" of bore. Fearing I was about to loose a very good shooting barrel I decided to drop the charge to 55.0 gr which still produced 3450 fps. In comparision a very comfortable load. Accuracy may not have been quite as good but I believe this was due more to the worn throat more then the reduced load at this point.

    As far as case life, even at the top pressure loads I was getting 5-6 firings per case with the modified Winchester 284 cases.

    I have always liked the old Win 284 cases. They support alot of pressure and are much better quality then most would have you believe. Not as easy to form but not that bad at all with a neck bushing die to step them down a bit.

    Since then, I have built a couple dozen 6-284 rifles with 28 to 30" Lilja barrels. I have since switched to the 1-9 barrels as they are plenty for the 107 gr class bullets and are easier on the thinner jacketed 105s from Hornady and Berger.

    In my testing, my velocity results of this first rifle were not uncommon, nore was the accuracy.

    Again, I am suprised your seeing pressure signs with 53.0 gr RL-22. You must have a very short throat length. Another thing that could be the problem, check to make sure you have proper neck clearance. You should be able to push a bullet through a fired case neck without much resistance at all. If you can not or there is noticable resistance, your neck diameter in the chamber is to tight and you will need to turn your neck thickness down.

    All this said, your rifle is shooting extremely well, sometimes its best not to look to hard for greener grass and realize what you have in front of you. Yes your velocities are a bit off average for that barrel length but accuracy is far more important then shear velocity.
     
  7. carverelli

    carverelli Active Member

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    you may not remember Kirby, but we had several email conversations around 2002. Before you started your smithshop. Dan Olsen did the work as I believe he helped you with one of your rifles, and you recommended him to me. THe first chamber he cut was throated really long and it was MY belief at the time that I had to nestle the 107mk against the rifling, and I had to seat them too far out. I sent the barreled action back to him and he cut some of the barrel down and rechambered. My OAL is right at 3" for the smk's. I made up some more ammo this afternoon, and will attempt to shoot early before work this week if conditions are favorable.

    Some of the primer pockets are started to loosen up on my old 284 WIN brass, but I've got 4-5 firings out of them. Not sure if he meant too, but when Olsen cut the chamber he left a small machining mark about 1/8" long right below the shoulder. I can count the marks on my brass to see how many times they've been fired. Several years ago I bought some Norma 6.5 x284 brass thinking maybe it was better than the Winchester stuff. It was easier forming down to 6mm. I have redding bushing dies and a small base die(that i used today as the bolt was getting tight on some brass) my chamber neck is .268 if memory serves me and the bushing im using is .263 It probably springs back .001 or .0015 and then .002 neck tension has .0015 or so left to let the bullet go.

    Runout on most fireformed loaded rounds are .002- .004 and new unfired formed load can be as high as .01


    like you said though, I'm getting close to satisfied with the rifle because they more load development I do the less barre/ accuracy I have left to enjoy.

    Last weeks shooting conditions were far from ideal, and I dont have a lot of experience doping wind and/or mirage. Bullet holes at 300 yards were touching, then as the length increased the groups did also.

    I am working about 45 minutes from Wenatchee WA and I hear there are Rockchuck opportunities around. But getting someone to divulge their honey hole may tax my people skills.


    BTW, thanks for responding and getting my hooked on the LR bug.lol
     
  8. AZShooter

    AZShooter Well-Known Member

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    I understand your frustration. You have read that others are getting with their 6mm-284s and 107s at much faster velocities than your rifle. If you do a long search you will find quite a wide range of results.

    One load that kept popping up was Randy Derks world record 6 targets 7” @ 1000 YDS 54 grains of Reloader 22 - Federal 210m primer - Sierra 107 grain Match King bullet - 3425 fps. I have no idea on barrel length or twist.


    I did a ton of research before deciding on which twist/bullet etc. I decided I wanted to shoot a 115. After reading that many shooters had issues with the 115 Bergers coming apart the DTAC was THE bullet to try. Many recommended a 1 in 7.5 twist for 115s. So I got a Bartlein 5R with that faster twist. I tried every possible variable with Lapua brass. Several powders, seating depths, neck tensions etc. Nothing shot well enough. I shot over 600 rounds, using up the best of the barrel's potential learning.

    So...I switched to the 107 Sierra which showed accuracy right away. While I had heard of superior velocities with RL-22 I wanted a powder that was more consistent over a wide range of temperatures. I tried H1000 and Retumbo. 57 gr of Retumbo worked the best. Velocity is a sedate 3265 fps. I'll use up the rest of the barrel 's life with this combination.

    The next barrel will most likely use 284 win brass and I'll get a slower twist. I may even try RL-22 as well.

    I can PM you my rather lengthy file on every load I could find on the 6mm-284 via the net.

    Ross
     
  9. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    I do remember our conversations, kind of, that was a while ago!!! My Olsen 6-284 was also a very good shooter and also produced similiar velocity to what I am seeing with my current rig.

    That said, every barrel is different and it seems that the more extreme the chambering, the larger the difference CAN be from barrel to barrel. Lilja barrels are not known for extreme velocity potential because they generally run pretty tight on bore diameter. This is because they are ment for BR type rifles more then anything so when you get a slow Lilja, it can be pretty slow but generally very accurate.

    You did not mention if you could push a bullet though the neck of a fired case. From your numbers, you should have plenty of room for proper bullet release, in fact a bit more then I would recommend.

    That said, if you have not confirmed this by making sure you can push a bullet through a fired case I would do so. The older a reamer gets, the smaller the neck and throat diameter get. This is just normal wear. I have no idea how many chambers have been cut with his reamer but I bet its more then a few!!!

    Never hurts to make sure and if needed, take a slight turn off your neck diameter if needed. A neck that is to tight can cause some SEVERE pressure issues.

    Anyway, I would confirm that and if that is not a problem, I would say your about there with your load development. With conditions as bad as you were shooting in, you got very good accuracy results, good loads, good rifle and great shooting!!!

    Unfortunately, the 6-284 is one of those wildcats that are just not well suited to alot of load development as you well know. Kind of like the top fuel dragster. To many runs down the 1/4 mile stip and things will need to be replaced!!! But man those runs are FUN!!
     
  10. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    One thing that always suprises me with loaders using the 6-284 or similiar chamberings is when they tell me that they would prefer to use RL-22 if it only was more stable with temp changes but then they say they go to H-1000 which is noticably slower burning and even Retumbo which is dramatically slower burning.

    H-4831 is nearly IDENTICAL to RL-22. Now you can not use same loads but burn rate for all intent and purpose is so close that whatever RL-22 can do in velocity, H-4831 will match it easily with very similiar pressures and load densities. There is even the option to use H-4831SC which has much smaller granular size.

    One thing to keep in mind when using the larger granular powders in a small bore, you may be seeing minor powder bridging at higher chamber pressures which could be limiting the potential of your chambering with these premature pressure spikes.

    The big 6mms are certainly prone to this problem with the larger stick powders. A fine ball powder would be best choice but few offer anything remotely close to stability under temp changes.

    Still, if RL-22 is the preferred powder in the 6-284, which from what I have seen, its about as ideal as you can get, why would anyone look any farther then H-4831 for a more stable replacement powder.

    Going to H-1000 and Retumbo will only increase load density and reduce velocity potential. This is not a bad thing. Extreme velocity spreads are generally very good with these slower powders and accuracy is generally pretty darn good as well so not a big deal but you do give up velocity and you also have to watch for excessive carbon fouling which is always an issue when using a large capacity small bore chambering and its exaggerated when using powders on the Slow side of the recommended burn rate for a specific chambering.

    Just always suprised how H-4831 gets passed over all the time which is really to bad. Maybe its because of its old name and the newer powders get the go over it. Still, I think alot of you would be very happy with the results of this powder in the big 6mm if you like what you see from RL-22.

    Great velocity, small granular size, stable in temp changes and clean burning with good load densities. May want to give it a try.
     
  11. RockZ

    RockZ Well-Known Member

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    Ramshot magnum is the powder to use in the6-284.
    Great accuracy, low es/sd, temp stable.
    I've used it alot and have suggested it to others and they
    have had great results as well.
    I'm getting 3395fps with 107smks with28" barrel at sea level.
    Less than .5 moa at 1000yds
     
  12. carverelli

    carverelli Active Member

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    This week I'll try 51 and 52 gr rl 22 and see. I also picked up some Berger 105 " hunting bullets" last week and I'll give those a try. They aren't moly coated and my mk's are. I'll wait until I shoot the mk's and then the bore should be sufficiently coated.

    The lilja has been my second premium barrel and copper fouling is almost nonexistent. My AR has a 1-13 Kreiger and it's been as good
     
  13. Outlaw6.0

    Outlaw6.0 Well-Known Member

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    +1 here, I am really liking Magnum in my 6-284, consistency is great, not quite as slow as Retumbo & a little slower than H-1000 IIRC. I haven't pushed as hard as Kirby or RockZ but accuracy has been 1/2 moa or less (on a good day:D)