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fastest 338 without the Cheytac
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<blockquote data-quote="Fiftydriver" data-source="post: 426602" data-attributes="member: 10"><p>If your looking at the top of the performance ladder but short of the very top rung which includes all the 408 CT based wildcats, you are left with the following:</p><p> </p><p>338 Lapua Improved</p><p>338 Allen Xpress</p><p>338-378 Wby</p><p>338 Kahn</p><p>338-416</p><p>338-416 Improved</p><p>8.59 Titan</p><p>338 Excaliber</p><p> </p><p>Personally, while the performance is there, the 338 Excaliber does not get my approval simply because of the cost of the brass which is dramatically more then even the big Wby and Rigby brass. So for me that counts that one out as being a practical choice.</p><p> </p><p>The Lazzeroni Titan is a great chambering but brass quality leaves alot to be desired and I am not sure how long we will be able to get that brass either.</p><p> </p><p>I will admit, I am also not a huge fan of the 416 based 338 rounds. Not because of a lack of performance by any means but simply because it takes plenty of time to form cases and the cases are still quite costly. Plus, I have never seen one that would take the pressures that I feel is acceptable or at least offer a case life long enough for my liking. With the release of the 338-378 Wby, it basically made the 338-416 obsolete in my opinion as there is very little if any difference in brass cost, strength of performance and no need to fireform brass for the Wby.</p><p> </p><p>That said, I am not a huge fan of the Wby either. Brass is generally good quality but not overly strong as far as taking chamber pressure. </p><p> </p><p>When Istarted playing with big 338s I started with the 338 Kahn and was very impressed with its accuracy but the Wby and Normal brass simply would not take alot of pressure. Many are getting very impressive numbers but case life is quite short. 3000 fps with a 300 gr bullet is possible with both the big Wby and the Rigby case, maybe even 3050 fps but thats about it with anything remotely close to usible pressures. To me, if a case can not produce 5-6 firings per case, its not of much interest to me. The Kahn, Wby and Rigby can do this but your velocity will be 2900-2950 fps from what I have seen in 27-28" barrel lengths.</p><p> </p><p>When I decided to design my 338 AX I wanted a case that would offer extreme strength and quality and that made it pretty clear the 338 Lapua case was the case to use. It is however about 8-12% less in capacity then the improved Wby or Rigby case. That worried me at first but after doing some testing, it was clear that the 338 AX and other 338 AI designes were capable of 3000 fps class velocity with around 100 grains of powder and a 300 gr SMK bullet. Thats 10-15 grains less powder then the big Wby, Kahn or Rigby used for the same velocity.</p><p> </p><p>The Lapua case would easily hold this chamber pressure for many firings. Plus it had the added bonus of being able to use conventional length mag boxes at 3.700" in OAL compared to the Wby and Rigbys 3.900" OAL.</p><p> </p><p>Yes the AX and AI will gain a bit of performance with the bullets seated out long but its not dramatic in my testing, generally 75 fps or less comparing 3.700" to 4.000" OAL and loaded to max pressures.</p><p> </p><p>So for my money, I would go with the Lapua improved design, after all, that is what I put my design on and I have never been sorry for that.</p><p> </p><p>As far as a Rifle design. I am not trying to toot my own horn but my Raptor Stalker is exactly what you have discribed. </p><p> </p><p>Raptor receiver</p><p>Rem Hunter stock or Manner MCS-T stock</p><p>Lilja Raptor contour barrel(basically a #5 contoured barrel with 5" shank length)</p><p>Heavy flutes</p><p>APS small PK brake</p><p>Jewell trigger</p><p>HS Precision DM system</p><p> </p><p>I am currently working on a new Raptor Stalker receiver design which will have an open top receiver design which will take another 1/4 lb off the rifle weight easily getting the Stalker into the 9 lb range if wanted.</p><p> </p><p>You can get even lighter if you go with an Edge or Ultra Maxx class chambering because you can use a very light Borden Timberline Magnum receiver, lightweight internal mag box, #5 or #6 fluted barrels and very lightweight stocks, easily getting this class of rifle in the 8 lb range without much trouble.</p><p> </p><p>As mentioned, LTLR has correctly mentioned that the rifles are no less accurate but they are much more difficult for us as humans to shoot accurately. There is a trade in for lightweight rifles, shootability!!!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Fiftydriver, post: 426602, member: 10"] If your looking at the top of the performance ladder but short of the very top rung which includes all the 408 CT based wildcats, you are left with the following: 338 Lapua Improved 338 Allen Xpress 338-378 Wby 338 Kahn 338-416 338-416 Improved 8.59 Titan 338 Excaliber Personally, while the performance is there, the 338 Excaliber does not get my approval simply because of the cost of the brass which is dramatically more then even the big Wby and Rigby brass. So for me that counts that one out as being a practical choice. The Lazzeroni Titan is a great chambering but brass quality leaves alot to be desired and I am not sure how long we will be able to get that brass either. I will admit, I am also not a huge fan of the 416 based 338 rounds. Not because of a lack of performance by any means but simply because it takes plenty of time to form cases and the cases are still quite costly. Plus, I have never seen one that would take the pressures that I feel is acceptable or at least offer a case life long enough for my liking. With the release of the 338-378 Wby, it basically made the 338-416 obsolete in my opinion as there is very little if any difference in brass cost, strength of performance and no need to fireform brass for the Wby. That said, I am not a huge fan of the Wby either. Brass is generally good quality but not overly strong as far as taking chamber pressure. When Istarted playing with big 338s I started with the 338 Kahn and was very impressed with its accuracy but the Wby and Normal brass simply would not take alot of pressure. Many are getting very impressive numbers but case life is quite short. 3000 fps with a 300 gr bullet is possible with both the big Wby and the Rigby case, maybe even 3050 fps but thats about it with anything remotely close to usible pressures. To me, if a case can not produce 5-6 firings per case, its not of much interest to me. The Kahn, Wby and Rigby can do this but your velocity will be 2900-2950 fps from what I have seen in 27-28" barrel lengths. When I decided to design my 338 AX I wanted a case that would offer extreme strength and quality and that made it pretty clear the 338 Lapua case was the case to use. It is however about 8-12% less in capacity then the improved Wby or Rigby case. That worried me at first but after doing some testing, it was clear that the 338 AX and other 338 AI designes were capable of 3000 fps class velocity with around 100 grains of powder and a 300 gr SMK bullet. Thats 10-15 grains less powder then the big Wby, Kahn or Rigby used for the same velocity. The Lapua case would easily hold this chamber pressure for many firings. Plus it had the added bonus of being able to use conventional length mag boxes at 3.700" in OAL compared to the Wby and Rigbys 3.900" OAL. Yes the AX and AI will gain a bit of performance with the bullets seated out long but its not dramatic in my testing, generally 75 fps or less comparing 3.700" to 4.000" OAL and loaded to max pressures. So for my money, I would go with the Lapua improved design, after all, that is what I put my design on and I have never been sorry for that. As far as a Rifle design. I am not trying to toot my own horn but my Raptor Stalker is exactly what you have discribed. Raptor receiver Rem Hunter stock or Manner MCS-T stock Lilja Raptor contour barrel(basically a #5 contoured barrel with 5" shank length) Heavy flutes APS small PK brake Jewell trigger HS Precision DM system I am currently working on a new Raptor Stalker receiver design which will have an open top receiver design which will take another 1/4 lb off the rifle weight easily getting the Stalker into the 9 lb range if wanted. You can get even lighter if you go with an Edge or Ultra Maxx class chambering because you can use a very light Borden Timberline Magnum receiver, lightweight internal mag box, #5 or #6 fluted barrels and very lightweight stocks, easily getting this class of rifle in the 8 lb range without much trouble. As mentioned, LTLR has correctly mentioned that the rifles are no less accurate but they are much more difficult for us as humans to shoot accurately. There is a trade in for lightweight rifles, shootability!!! [/QUOTE]
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