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Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
fastest 338 caliber?Build advice?
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<blockquote data-quote="Fiftydriver" data-source="post: 251886" data-attributes="member: 10"><p>I guess the way I look at it, the 300 gr SMK is THE standard in long range 338 cal performance. It works, it works very well, its heavy and has a very high SD. I have never had a problem with this bullet as far as penetration or expansion. At times it may overexpand a bit but because of its 300 gr bullet weight, its got some to spear. </p><p> </p><p>Accuracy is amazing, consistancy is not always the best but an hour on the bench and you can short out 500 bullets so that is a moot point. They are easy to get most of the time and for todays standards, they are relatively inexpensive which is not a bad thing when you have 4 or 5 big 338 rifles using them.</p><p> </p><p>I always welcome improvements in ballistic performance, anyone that has read any of my posts know how I like to push the envelope and encourage anyone else to do the same as long as they do it in a safe manner.</p><p> </p><p>Are the HAT bullets a ballistic improvement over the 300 gr SMK, certainly. Are then an improvement terminally??? THat has yet to be seen, just not enough data in the books to say they are the equal to a 300 gr SMK. Especially on heavier game such as elk. </p><p> </p><p>The 300 gr SMK has put down many thousands of elk and while there are some rare reports of bullet failure, these are few and far between and in several of the instances I have heard about, pilot error had more to do with the problems then bullet performance.</p><p> </p><p>I welcome the HAT bullets, I think they are on the right track to what we need to take the next step. I will be honest, Having shot both the HAT and the prototype Wildcat bullets, I feel the Wildcat was much more consistant in expansion over a wide range of velocities and had a significantly higher BC as well with no increase in baring surface. Just a more aggressive design.</p><p> </p><p>Some say a bit less aggressive design is a more consistantly accurate bullet. Perhaps, but if we have the ability to make a mid to upper .9 BC bullet that will shoot 1 moa at +3000 yards, why not push ahead to that level. Perhaps the issue is manufacturing ease. </p><p> </p><p>I guess that when I hear comments like, "If you use the HAT bullets in the smaller 338 magnums, they will equal or exceed the performance of the 408 based 338 wildcats." It makes me smile a bit. Certainly LV is pushing a product he believes in. No problem there, but the VAST majority of shooters out there WILL be using the 300 gr SMK in their smaller 338 magnum rifles, that is just a fact. Even if the HAT bullets become mainstream. </p><p> </p><p>I have been in this business long enough to know that the top level shooter will shoot what works best of gives him the most performance, no matter the price. I also know that these guys make up a very small percentage of the shooting and hunting population and the rest of them will likely see the HAT bullets, like them, possibly even try some but if they shoot any volume at all, they will not drop $165 on 100 bullets when they can get 500, 300 gr SMKs for another $60. In this day and age, economics will effect bullet sales for the average shooter.</p><p> </p><p>And as far as the 338-408 CT shooters, I believe they will probably be more likely to purchase the HAT bullets over the guy shooting a higher volume shooting, smaller 338 magnum simply because the 408 bases shooter will likely not be shooting nearly as many bullets per session which will allow him to justify the much more expensive bullet.</p><p> </p><p>I see this all the time with 50 BMG shooters. Sure they have an accuracy load developed with the 750 gr A-max which will run around the same price as the HAT bullet a piece, but when they take the friends out to plink, there will be some surplus 647s or 700 gr APs in the cases and they will shoot many dozens of those for every one A-Max they shoot.</p><p> </p><p>Again, these are the average shooter, the cream of the crop will likely never put an AP projo through their fine rifle but again these are a very small number of shooters in our sport.</p><p> </p><p>Finally, just want to stress my point. There will be far more shooters out there using the 300 gr SMK in their 338 magnums no matter what case its using compared to the HAT bullets. Its true the HAT bullets gives the smaller 338 magnums a boost in performance ballistically but that same advantage is also given to the 408 based shooters.</p><p> </p><p>The long term performance record of the HAT bullets is just starting. They started a bit shaky and are coming on better now as any custom bullet will do. But to say that they are a huge improvement over the 300 gr SMK just because they have a higher BC is in my opinion getting ahead of our selves. Lets get a few hunting seasons under our belts and a good number of truely unbiased hunters using them and reporting on them before we crwon them the wonder bullet for the 338 cal.</p><p> </p><p>No flame to LV, certainly none to Mr. Henson. I am impressed with his vision to push the envelope. Just wish he would come on and talk to us about his products more often is all.</p><p> </p><p>Also want to hear more thrid party reports on these bullets. That is where the we will learn the most about these bullets from. That takes time, no other way to get that information. Time will tell.</p><p> </p><p>For now, every 338 RUM, 338 Edge, 338 Ultra Maxx, 338 Allen Xpress, 338 Kahn or 338 Allen Magnum that comes out of my shop WILL be accuracy tested with the 300 gr SMK because I know exactly what this bullet has done, will do today and will also do tomorrow. Simply put, it flat out works and it works extremely well so that is why it is and will likely remain the standard of long range performance for the 338 magnums.</p><p> </p><p>No reason not to keep pushing the envelope though.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Fiftydriver, post: 251886, member: 10"] I guess the way I look at it, the 300 gr SMK is THE standard in long range 338 cal performance. It works, it works very well, its heavy and has a very high SD. I have never had a problem with this bullet as far as penetration or expansion. At times it may overexpand a bit but because of its 300 gr bullet weight, its got some to spear. Accuracy is amazing, consistancy is not always the best but an hour on the bench and you can short out 500 bullets so that is a moot point. They are easy to get most of the time and for todays standards, they are relatively inexpensive which is not a bad thing when you have 4 or 5 big 338 rifles using them. I always welcome improvements in ballistic performance, anyone that has read any of my posts know how I like to push the envelope and encourage anyone else to do the same as long as they do it in a safe manner. Are the HAT bullets a ballistic improvement over the 300 gr SMK, certainly. Are then an improvement terminally??? THat has yet to be seen, just not enough data in the books to say they are the equal to a 300 gr SMK. Especially on heavier game such as elk. The 300 gr SMK has put down many thousands of elk and while there are some rare reports of bullet failure, these are few and far between and in several of the instances I have heard about, pilot error had more to do with the problems then bullet performance. I welcome the HAT bullets, I think they are on the right track to what we need to take the next step. I will be honest, Having shot both the HAT and the prototype Wildcat bullets, I feel the Wildcat was much more consistant in expansion over a wide range of velocities and had a significantly higher BC as well with no increase in baring surface. Just a more aggressive design. Some say a bit less aggressive design is a more consistantly accurate bullet. Perhaps, but if we have the ability to make a mid to upper .9 BC bullet that will shoot 1 moa at +3000 yards, why not push ahead to that level. Perhaps the issue is manufacturing ease. I guess that when I hear comments like, "If you use the HAT bullets in the smaller 338 magnums, they will equal or exceed the performance of the 408 based 338 wildcats." It makes me smile a bit. Certainly LV is pushing a product he believes in. No problem there, but the VAST majority of shooters out there WILL be using the 300 gr SMK in their smaller 338 magnum rifles, that is just a fact. Even if the HAT bullets become mainstream. I have been in this business long enough to know that the top level shooter will shoot what works best of gives him the most performance, no matter the price. I also know that these guys make up a very small percentage of the shooting and hunting population and the rest of them will likely see the HAT bullets, like them, possibly even try some but if they shoot any volume at all, they will not drop $165 on 100 bullets when they can get 500, 300 gr SMKs for another $60. In this day and age, economics will effect bullet sales for the average shooter. And as far as the 338-408 CT shooters, I believe they will probably be more likely to purchase the HAT bullets over the guy shooting a higher volume shooting, smaller 338 magnum simply because the 408 bases shooter will likely not be shooting nearly as many bullets per session which will allow him to justify the much more expensive bullet. I see this all the time with 50 BMG shooters. Sure they have an accuracy load developed with the 750 gr A-max which will run around the same price as the HAT bullet a piece, but when they take the friends out to plink, there will be some surplus 647s or 700 gr APs in the cases and they will shoot many dozens of those for every one A-Max they shoot. Again, these are the average shooter, the cream of the crop will likely never put an AP projo through their fine rifle but again these are a very small number of shooters in our sport. Finally, just want to stress my point. There will be far more shooters out there using the 300 gr SMK in their 338 magnums no matter what case its using compared to the HAT bullets. Its true the HAT bullets gives the smaller 338 magnums a boost in performance ballistically but that same advantage is also given to the 408 based shooters. The long term performance record of the HAT bullets is just starting. They started a bit shaky and are coming on better now as any custom bullet will do. But to say that they are a huge improvement over the 300 gr SMK just because they have a higher BC is in my opinion getting ahead of our selves. Lets get a few hunting seasons under our belts and a good number of truely unbiased hunters using them and reporting on them before we crwon them the wonder bullet for the 338 cal. No flame to LV, certainly none to Mr. Henson. I am impressed with his vision to push the envelope. Just wish he would come on and talk to us about his products more often is all. Also want to hear more thrid party reports on these bullets. That is where the we will learn the most about these bullets from. That takes time, no other way to get that information. Time will tell. For now, every 338 RUM, 338 Edge, 338 Ultra Maxx, 338 Allen Xpress, 338 Kahn or 338 Allen Magnum that comes out of my shop WILL be accuracy tested with the 300 gr SMK because I know exactly what this bullet has done, will do today and will also do tomorrow. Simply put, it flat out works and it works extremely well so that is why it is and will likely remain the standard of long range performance for the 338 magnums. No reason not to keep pushing the envelope though. [/QUOTE]
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