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Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by royinidaho, Feb 15, 2008.
My very first poll, just cause I'm a bit piss'd off
Option #2 would not be "fair" because animals lack the ability to use long pointed sticks.
I say:: put predator and prey afield together, both naked and unarmed, then wait to see who eats who first!
It was never or never will be fair, cause with our brain power we'ins are sposed to be smarter than the critters we're after or the ones that are after us. Thus we will prevail not all of the time, but most of the time over most critters but not all of them.
Therefore over time we had learned thats it not prudent to bring a knife to a gunfight. Better to bring your gun, better to bring two guns, best to bring all your friends that have guns.
My long pointy stick is called RUM.
Apparently this has been a sore subject somewhere along the line..and I do not believe I will chime in on the poll, but IMHO, nothing in life is fair, if it was then there would be no winner or loser, everyone or thing on be on the same even keel, and according to politics voice that is the way this world wants to vocalize their opinion, but as to the low lying fact of actions, those that speak of equality in all matters and issues, still wants to win, or be on a playing field above those they suggest their opinions to, so as far as fair chase, winning is an option I like, and I like to keep it simple, don't get involved, if it is bigger and armed, then you need a bigger weapon. Sorry for the rant, not understanding totally about the sock question above, but my socks are OD Green, and I served my country and fellow brethern for the rights we have. God Bless!
Read B&C clubs definition,its pretty simple.
so Roy, what's got your shorts in a bad place?
I think the responses to the poll are quite interesting. Much different than anticipated by me.
Therefore I'll not muddy the waters with a personal disclosure of cause of the tightness of the shorts.
But I will say this: Piss on the Boone and Crockett Club and the horse they rode in on. What a politically correct outfit that is.
Yhe piss on all the habitat they have bought and saved from development,piss on all the money they have donated to promote hunting rights,you must be a first class moron if you dont respect the work they do.Just because they wont let your livestock in their record books you piss on their organiztion?Theodore Roosevelt founded the club and it was vision of the future that saved the areas that we hunt today from being bought up and developed,you might want to look into all the work this organization does to protect your right to hunt(even if you want to do it in a pen) before you (piss on em).They do more every year to promote hunting and public lands than you will do in a lifetime.You live in Idaho,millions of acres of public lands set aside by the plans Theodore Roosevelt set in motion,one of the largest wild elk herds in the nation out your back door and you choose to go to Nebraska and shoot an elk out of an enclosure,there has to be something wrong with you.I see adds at the top of the sign in page for canned hunts,if this site is promoting canned hunts and its members want to trash the B%C club because they wont recognize their hand fed heads,and im not allowed to have an opposite opinion without people like you throwing a hissy fit then i want nothing to do with it.
Boone and Crockett Club
It's their game they made the rules and we must abide by them if we want to play,just like any other game.Start up another "BOOK" any animal anywhere,out the truck window,posted land,from helicopters or whatever.
Would you all like cheese with the "wine".
That must be one hell of a sturdy little soap box you drag around with you. Again, you try to piss all over somebody's thread and again you don't read nor understand what has been said.
And, the funny part is, you don't have a clue as to what Roy is saying or why.
Ol Roy never has been to Nebraska hunting Elk but what the hell, that's just a fact, and on your little soap box they don't matter do they?
Again, like I said before, take a chill pill and learn how to discuss things rationally without getting yourself all riled up. You need to do something about that chip you keep dragging around on your shoulder.
Hmm? Yet another thread. Seems like another one I read a few minutes ago. Who is on the soap box??? Makes me wonder.
So what is fair chase....... How many scuffles have been raised over this question.
Personally, in my opinion, there is no such thing as fair chase. A properly practiced human, using all the legal methods they can to take came will have no problem at all "killing" big game.
As a long range hunter. I kill game when I decide to kill game. Long ago, when I was starting my big game hunting career, I saw some amazing animals that were just out of my abilities to get.
Over the years, I have practiced to improve my skills and also learned to make my own long range equipment until the point now that if I see a big game animal I want to harvest in good conditions out to 1/2 mile or so, its simply not that big of a challange anymore to take that animal.
So why do I hunt if its that easy. Because hunting is not killing. Never has been. Hunting is the events that occur between humans and game that may or may not in the end result in a harvested big game animal.
In my case, 99% of the situations that result in the animal walking away are simply from me deciding I do not want to kill that animal. That does not mean I take any less enjoyment away from the encounter, hardly the case. It means that because I have the ability to harvest pretty much any animal I encounter out to 1/2 mile or so, I have a responsibility to take only that game I REALLY want to take.
I hear all the time about hunters getting animals they really did not want to kill. That is not the case with me. I have never been fooled over the last 10 years hunting big game. That is not to say I have not shot lower trophy quality animals in that time frame but in each case, I knew exactly what the reticle was on when that trigger broke and if I would not have been happy with that animal when I walked up to it, I would never have pulled the trigger.
So what do I consider fair chase, I guess it would have to be going out after big game with a 5" kinfe and thats it.
The more fair chase the hunting method is, the less efficent it is and the more likely that the game animals targeted will get away wounded.
Fair case to me is a joke. If I line one of my rifles up on a big game animal in good conditions after I have done my part practicing and setting up the rifle, there should be very little chase that that animal will travel any didstance at all before expiring. That is the way it should be, boring consistancy as far as quick kills go.
Does this happen every time the trigger is pulled, no, things happen, we are humans, but we should be flat amazed when it does.
As far as Boone and Crockett, no doubt that they have done alot for our sport and continue to do so everyday. That said, the Safari Club International has probably done more for world wide hunting and hunters then any other organization on the planet and they do allow in exotic and high fence hunting records into their books and they are clearly seperated from wild game so those two class of game are never compared head to head which they should not be.
About the only thing I would say that I do not agree with concerning Boone & Crockett would be in their scoring method. It is far to focused on symetry then any other aspect of the animals antlers characteristics. This can really be misleading because some very large animals really get hammered simply because they are not perfectly even.
Just for an example on how unfair the B&C scoring method can be would be the elk I took at the Rocking Heard Hunting Ranch this last fall. If you look at the bulls score on paper, scored on the B&C net nontypical scoring method which would be the only method acceptable for entry into the B&C books if it would have been a wild bull. It would have scored 410 4/8" with the B&C net non-typical score.
With the SCI scoring method, which includes every inch of bone on the head of a game animal with no dedictions, which I personally feel is the best method of representing the true size of any big game animals rack baring measuring total water displacement by a rack.
Anyway, with the SCI scoring method or the B&C gross non-typical scoring method, the rack scores 466 4/8"
You look at these scores on paper and while both are large, the 410" score is no where near representative of this rack and I feel that is a real disservice to the game animals we are measuring for trophy quality.
That is just my opinion about which scoring method more accurately represent the actual size of the game animals.
As far as helping us that enjoy the sport of hunting, they all serve us well. SCI still does far more all over the world including here in North America then any organization.
There are several organizations to choose from, pic the one that you like the best and is most in line with your opinion of such things.
seems to me "we've" missed the point
Does anyone remember Darwin?
Fair chase, in my opinion, is no longer defined as fighting a tiger with a knife, or chasing a deer on foot and killing it with your bared hands, or climbing trees to catch squirrels...
With human intelligence, the ability to reason and our somewhat more "evolved" methods of hunting, fair should not be defined by any organizations rules.. but more about common ethics, humanity and morals. Our society needs organizations to help people work within a framework of what can be termed acceptable behavior.
Integrity is required as well, since using good judgement and humane "hunting practices" requires integrity. (remember Integrity is doing the right things when no one is looking)
Fair chase, In my opinion is about harvesting an animal legally, with the least amount of anguish to the animal. Fair means taking the animal as humanely as possible, not jumping from a tree to stab it becasue that makes it an even playing field.
Remember, an animal will be in stress if it smells you, sees you or otherwise detects danger. Imagine being stressed all day long thinking someone is in your house, trying to kill you, just out of sight, you can hear them but not see them, but you know someones there...
(remember wild animals are pretty simple in terms of their thinking.) If I am being chased I run or fight for my life. If I am not being chased I am eating or sleeping, all the while being sure nothing is trying to kill me...
My point with all of this is simply this:
Fair chase is what we do to humanely harvest an animal, legally, ethically and with good moral judgement. Not if can be scored and called a trophy. I know people that have BC winners that never submitted because they do not want strangers poaching on their land. I know others who have taken "trophies" too small to consider worthwile to many "hunters". For them a trophy was a hunt that posed a challenge for them...maybe becasue they tracked it for hours or because it was wounded and bleeding slowly for days becasue of an unethical hunter...and harvesting tha animal was saving it from a long painful death...
My intent was not to be long winded but to provide an alternative to what is considered fair when you think about humans vs. animals logically.
Animals have advantages we don't. We have the ability to create tools to overcome those advantages.
What we do with the tools and how we treat the hunt determines what's fair.
Someone else said it already.... no such thing as EQUAL. Otherwise a lion would have the same chance at eating as a butterfly...nature created checks and balances. Strong slower animals hunt faster smaller animals...