Fair Chase, a definition

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by royinidaho, Sep 13, 2007.

  1. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    I think it would be well if a really good definition of "fair chase" were developed.

    Year before last I lay on a shooting mat and/or in a bivvy and slept in the bivvy for about a week. Never moved from the spot. Saw all cows and had a bull tag.

    Last year I did the same thing, in the same spot, for the same amount of time, only later in the year. Saw all bulls and had a cow tag.

    This year I'm going to do the same thing in a different place with a bull tag and with someone to BS with.

    If unsuccessful this year. Next year I'm going to pay 1900 bucks and do the same exact thing, most probably for the same amount of time, but I will get a shot.

    Which of the above is fair chase?

    We're talking empty freezer here!:rolleyes:
     
  2. HeskethPritchard

    HeskethPritchard Well-Known Member

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    They all are although coming from the UK I'm not sure what the payment of $1900 means.

    I must admit you made me smile, I've been through the exact same frustrations here but I love it; its all part of the process. If the animals said "Hey Roys on his way over lets all stand for him and see which one he shoots?" You'd get bored.

    Stay with it Roy, its what makes you; you and you'll get your animal and when you do it will have loads of memories and taste real sweet!!
     

  3. ss7mm

    ss7mm Writers Guild

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    Sounds to me like it's been a really fair chase on your part. Just bad results.:mad:

    However, on the other hand, I don't think the critters are playing "fair" and I think they are the ones that need to re-think how they conduct themselves during hunting season.;)

    I think you need to file a formal complaint with the Idaho Game Department and have them make their critters abide by something a little more fair to you.:):D:)
     
  4. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    1900 bucks means my payment to the land owner who has 'em fenced in on about 2500 acres of mountain.
     
  5. specweldtom

    specweldtom Well-Known Member

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    Roy; check out GG's thread on gang hunting on this forum.

    Terrific way to spend a week, empty freezer or not.

    Tom
     
  6. mo

    mo Well-Known Member

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    fair chase

    don't do it roy buy a beef cow to feel that freezer up! I live mississippi and did u no we have elk to hunt here to, but it will cost around 1900.00. to each is own, but if i showed my buddies a pic of and elk i killed, and they ask where i killed him, and i said mississippi i would never here the end of it! on the other hand it would be cheaper than traveling out west!! na one day i'm going to get that letter in the mail from wy. saying that i finally drew an elk tag!
     
  7. NONYA

    NONYA Banned

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    Thats the difference between hunting and "shooting",hunters dont always get a shot and they enjoy that part of the quest,"shooters" cant stand the thought of failure and pay to make sure they wont.I have been hunting elk in MT for 22 years and have never killed a truly big bull,no bigge,gives me somthing to look foward to in my hunting career,THE HUNT!Why dont you spend that $ on a goodguide and go on a fairchase hunt where your odds of getting a good bull arnt 100% but very good?You might have to work for it but it will be a hunt,not going out to shoot someones livestock,pulling the ear tags out and taking your hero pics in a spot where the fence cant be seen,if you can live with it go for it.MT illegalized high fence wild game hunting but for $2200 you can go on a back country horseback elk camp hunt where you will have the experience of a lifetime een if you never saw an elk.If its just a meat thing pay $600 to shoot a young buffalo and fill several freezers.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2007
  8. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    Nonya, etal,

    Now I'm learning something. I guess I new it all along but hearing things said differently surely helps.

    Nonya, showing the difference between shooting and hunting was the key for me. Also mo30284's comments about Mississippi elk.

    Growing up in western Pennsylvania and living in idaho since 1966 is quite a combination..

    Hunting: When I "missed the bus" because of a new snow and grabbing dad's rifle (I had no respect for my 38-40) and heading for the woods. Making a loop around a couple of ridges on shanks pony (this is in PA) and spotting deer in their beds or cut their tracks because I wasn't stealthy enough. Picking a track that looked like a buck and tracking and stalking until I could see if it was a buck. Lots of fun, good experience. Whoever made the first mistake lost. I was the one who make the first mistake in all cases but one. That resulted in taking my first WT buck. a real nice 9 point.

    Another memorable hunt was down by Paris Idaho. A nice fresh snow and I busted a herd of Muleys with a real decent buck. The cover was fairly thick with sage patches of some size. I started my WT style track and stalk. They started making a large circle around a wooded ridge. About half way around I knew that they would complete the circle and pass close to where I first saw them. I quick timed across to where I first saw them and figured they would just about hit their original tracks. I picked my spot. Shortly here comes a doe, another doe and another and another. I know the buck is coming. I'm in a nice kneeling position. The scope is on 3 power. The distance is about 30 yards. When that buck comes through in a few moments the 130 Sierra Boat Tail will do its job and I will final get a really decent 4 X 4. I wait and wait and wait, confused. I lower the rifle and wait some more. What in the world happened. I went up and counted tracks. One set shy of the full herd???? I go back to where I was kneeling. As I approach the spot I see a set of track about 20 yards BEHIND where I was kneeling. I recall a grin, a thought of you SOB and a feeling of respect for Mr. Buck. Enough respect that I quit the chase and went back to the camper cooked a nice dinner and lounged around the rest of the afternoon completely satisfied with the day and the hunt.

    All the rest of my mule deer hunts and all my elk horse hunts I consider myself a shooter and sportsman and not a hunter in the same sense as a one on one chess game with a savvy buck. Shanks pony is not the best way to travel for muleys and elk. There is just too much area out here.;)

    RE: the freezer. After cooking and eating elk, some beef actually stinks, that is, smells bad when cooked. And the cuts I like are $$$$ a pound.:mad:
    And I'm cheap.:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2007
  9. NONYA

    NONYA Banned

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    Your Muley story brings back several memories where a smart ole buck pulled a fast one and was never seen again,i remember them like they happened yesterday.If it wasnt for those moments where you feel "defeated" in your quest hunting wouldnt be what it is to me,a challenge every time I head out the door and every time I return without cutting a tag gaurantees me another day in the field doing what I love.We have friends that own a big "hunting" ranch in Tx and after spending a week there when i was 12 and shooting some game I will never consider that style "hunt" again.It was a real eye opener when you get the inside info from the owners on how those operations are really run,they know every animal with antlers by name,they have records of where he was bought or bread,they consider the "wild" deer on their ranch inferior and try to kill them off,its a buisness and the hunting spirit is completly void when you see it from their perspective.I have know people who hunt high fence and they all have stories about the huge enclosures and wild game,its still an enclosure and its livestock,not game.The cost of a trophy elk/deer high fence hunt is sometimes more than a good fairchase guided hunt where you will have memories to last a lifetime,an experience,a HUNT!For $1900 you could do a month long self guided hunt in the Montana backcountry that would be the highliht of most hunters entire hunting career wether you bag an elk or not.
     
  10. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

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    Fair Chase

    Growing up on a farm in the Alabama foothills for the Appalachians we always had fried chicken, mashed potatoes, gravy, biscuits, a vegetable and iced tea for Sunday dinner (lunch for you Yankees). In late summer, the young chickens would be fryer size and one of us four boys would be asked to go out in the back yard and shoot one of the young roosters that roamed around loose. The rifle was an old 22 single shot with iron sights and the only place we were allowed to shoot for was the head. Sometimes the chicken would move its head just as the trigger was pulled and just get nicked and off it would run. Once a chicken has had a bullet hole put through its comb or beak it does not stop for a second shot so we would put down the rifle and give chase. The four of us barefoot boys would chase this poor rooster all around the back yard and through the barnyard and into the weed patches until we caught it.

    I grant you that it was not “fair” for the four of us to get after one fryer but it was a lot of fun.
     
  11. stxhunter

    stxhunter Well-Known Member

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    i sure hope texas does something about the high fences at least have the owners remove the native game before the fence is finished.when you only own a few hunderd acres and your nieghbors start putting up high fences around you then their stealing the game you have a right to also.we just had the peaple across the county road put up a highfence on about 250 acres thats crazy
     
  12. NONYA

    NONYA Banned

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    LOL sounds like huntin cats around my familys ranch as a kid.:D
     
  13. James H

    James H Well-Known Member

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    Buffalobob
    In rural Nebraska Dinner is at noon and Supper is in the evening.
    About a year ago the local TV station started forecasting the weather for times of day; breakfast, lunch, dinner. Apparently there was some feedback as within about a month it was changed to; breakfast, dinner, supper although I think their supper is around 5:30pm I almost never eat supper before 10:00pm.

    Roy
    Since I was young I had always wanted to go Elk hunting, never thought it would happen.
    Well I have now been Elk hunting 4 times( twice one year, month long season).
    The first year I had a bull tag, saw nothing until the last day when a friend and I were walking on an Elk trail rounded a corner and there they were about 70 yds off. If I remember correctly there were 5 with one bull it turned and the only shot I had was up the vent. Since I was carrying a 25-06 I passed and was not able to catch back up with them.
    The second year I drew a late season cow tag. On the first outing I was walking through the timber and came across a nice 6x6 and a raghorn had the 6x6 in the scope and was watching for cows none showed up this was at about 60 yds. I went back at the end of the season ( the very end of December) the we knew the snow was deep so we took mountain sleds along. I stepped of the sled and walked to a ridge to see if there was any activity and 300yds off saw a herd of 7 elk running up the next ridge in the wide open, I had left my rifle on the sled. I did a lot of walking but that was the only time I saw any Elk on that excursion.
    The third year I had a bull tag again. I was with a friend who had hunted the same area the year before(I had the late season cow tag he hunted the 2nd or 3rd season). He said this looks like a good spot and asked would like to watch this trail or the one 100yds North I said you’re here I’ll take the North one. Within 20 minutes I heard 2 gunshots and walked back down to where he was and he said a bull just walked past him he shot twice but wasn’t sure if he hit it. We looked but couldn’t find any blood both of us walked up and down the elk trail but couldn’t find anything. He went back and sat at where he had been, so I decided if he’s that confident that he missed I’ll go back to where I was. I’ll be darned if I didn’t walk right to the dead Elk who had circled around and headed back up to where we could get to him with a 4 wheeler to pack it out. High double lung shot with a 300 win mag and fail safe bullets pencil in pencil out no expansion, no blood even where he layed.
    I later sat and watched another trail and had a cow walk down it had the crosshairs on her for a while, just to prove I could then put the gun down and watched to see if a bull was following her, NO.
    I am telling you this to say that you shouldn’t feel like the Lone Ranger as my Elk hunting has not gone well either. I also enjoyed the heck out of it, and I am sure I’ll be doing it again.
    As to the high fenced hunts, several years ago I had the opportunity to go on a canned turkey hunt which someone else paid for me to go on (one of those perks from work).
    They turned a turkey loose at the head of a draw full of timber and the “guide” next to me tried to call it in. Of course it scurried down the draw towards me and I shot it, just like I would have if it had still been in the yard. The whole thing was video taped and it really bothered me how they talked it up and acted like I had really done something just like it had been a real hunt. That’s been about 20 years ago and it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
    Not all of my hunting is what some here would consider fair chase (we gang hunt coyotes with vehicles and it’s loads of fun) but the high fenced hunts are not for me, but I have nothing against anyone else who wants to go on one.
    I'll make this post a little longer by saying that I doubt that a high fenced buffalo hunt is much different than a free range buffalo hunt and I could possibly be coerced into one of those.
    Sorry about the long post.
    James
     
  14. BrandonA

    BrandonA Well-Known Member

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    I think a "fair chase" is a very touchy subject. Points can be made all around and I think it comes down to your own personal opinion on what is truly fair. You'll find some people completely against High Fenced hunts, while some will say what does it matter they still have the chance to escape on the land they are fenced in on. Some might be middle ground and say XXX Acres fenced in provides enough room for the animals to have a fair chance to escape on.

    Every example could be argued endlessly with nothing much coming out of it.