Factory VS Custom rifle gripe...

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by pondskipper, May 28, 2012.

  1. pondskipper

    pondskipper Well-Known Member

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    If a man/woman were out looking for a rifle for just about any discipline weather it be benchrest, tactical, or long range hunting why on earth would anyone even consider spending any more than 3000-3500 bucks on a factory rifle to do any of it especially when a custom rifle could be built cheaper, more accurate, better fit and finish, not to mention be exactly what you would want when it's done? A Dakota arms t-76 longbow costs about 5800 new, while you can buy a surgeon action, super high quality barrel of any length, contour combo you like with any rate of twist, install it in any stock you want with any trigger you wish and have all the machine work done to it that you can dream of and still be well under the $5,800.00 price tag of the longbow with a much higher quality rifle in the end. I know that the rifle I'm talking about here isnt exactly run of the mill but how in the world can they justify a price tag like that and why on earth would anyone entertain the idea? I know this is a tactical rifle based argument but it applys to most all of the high dollar rifles you find.
     
  2. LouBoyd

    LouBoyd Well-Known Member

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    Maybe they like the factory rifle as it is.
    Maybe they don't know a gunsmith they trust.
    Maybe they don't want the wait time of having a custom gun made.
    Maybe they have a nostalgic reason to want a particular factory rifle that's hard to find.
    Maybe they don't want to argue with a smith to get them to build what they want, not what the smith wants.

    If a person buys a rifle, custom or not, and they're happy with it at the price they paid why should it bother anyone else? I've never understood why anyone would pay for engraving on a firearm. I wouldn't but I have no objection if others do.
     

  3. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    +1

    I will add one more to Louboyds great response.

    Maybe they dont know that they can buy a custom rifle for less, that is of better Quality.

    I recall when the Remington Sendero first came out it was very competitive with the accuracy
    of the custom rifles, and the price was well below that of a custom. If anything the High end
    factory rifles have improved the Quality of the custom barrels and in many cases the quality
    of the gun smiths in order to justify there cost.

    J E CUSTOM
     
  4. pondskipper

    pondskipper Well-Known Member

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    Ok, let me try again, how can a company justify a 5800 dollar price tag when there isn't anywhere near that in parts material or machine work?
     
  5. emn83

    emn83 Well-Known Member

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    basic economics...supply and demand...people will pay it, so why not charge it? Market value and actual cost are totally different.

    I understand where you are coming from, hence building my own rifle, but that's how the market works.
     
  6. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    What makes you so sure that you know enough about guns to build a good one?
    Because a checkbook is singin to ya?

    Many 'custom' guns don't end up shooting better. People who insisted them together don't even reload, and never had an actual plan, much less risked greater resources to test and tweak and test -until building a proven recipe. They were just rolling the dice.

    I've built & bought customs in the $6000 range(still do), and bought factory for way less.
    And truly I can relate to a lot of what Lou listed.
    If some gunbuilder out there has hammered out a guaranteed performing system(that's field practical), I'm open to paying for it lately.
    When/if I need a 30br scoring gun? I'll cut a single check for turn-key and be done with the mess.

    Hell, my last completed custom took 3yrs to finish!
    It was a very annoying process..
    Stockmaker says 2mos, turns into 7mos..
    That's ok, barrel finisher lied too..
    But back of the line with stock finisher, now costing 6 more months,, before he can lie to me..
    Then off to get what they messed up fixed, and then get the metal coated..

    I gotta give completing gunbuilders who must outsource credit. It has to be a very stressful job.
     
  7. pondskipper

    pondskipper Well-Known Member

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    I know enough to know exactly what I want and expect in a rifle and what it takes to make it come together the way it should, for example, my current build, a badger m-2008 action with a 308 win bolt face, chose it for the 60 degree cycle of the bolt for quicker cycle in tactical matches plus it's tough as nails, 28" 1:8" twist broughton 6mm barrel to be chambered in 6xc for 105-107 grain bullets any more twist would just add unneeded stress on the jackets and any less wouldn't stabalize them for the velocity I'll be pushing them to, I chose the 6xc over the 243 unlike most people due to the fact that I'm only punching holes in paper and won't benefit from the extra powder and throat erosion, It will be set up for no turn necks for ease of reloading plus it doesn't need to be that tight especially seeing as how it won't be a bench queen, it will be in all sorts of positions and exposed to dirt and grime so it will need a little wiggle room to be able to still operate without flaw. The stock will be a krg whiskey 3 chassis because I like the fit and finish and it's a no BS design that I've used on a 308 I owned and loved. If I had a lathe with a short enough headstock, spider, live pilot reamers and go / no go gauges I could do my own chambering work, it's not rocket science. I have a few years of experience in shooting sports, from age 7-26. All that wonderful stuff aside, when you compare a rifle like the one I'm building vs one of an equal quality and build that you can just order but pay 1500-2000 bucks more for what are you really paying the extra for is my question, I can understand a few hundred more or even up to $800 more due to overhead in all the parts and pieces it takes to build the rifles but the rifle I just described that I'm building is going to cost about 2900 bucks all total when finished and will almost certainly hang with any high doller factory built rifle of the same style and caliber in terms of functionality, accuracy, and dependability.
     
  8. FEENIX

    FEENIX Well-Known Member

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    I am just thankful we have plenty of choices for both factory and customs at varying prices for different supplies and demands - plenty for end users to choose from.

    America, the land of choices and the land of plenty - life is all about choices ... what one does with their choices is a different story. :rolleyes:
     
  9. montana magnum

    montana magnum New Member

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    to me personally and i dont care who you are, nobody could justify 5800 dollars worth of rifle unless it was made out of some kind of precious metal(gold).
     
  10. KRP

    KRP Well-Known Member

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  11. snowpro440

    snowpro440 Well-Known Member

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    I never see the custom$6K rifles that cost that much show up at any matches to shoot . Most people have gathered there own pieces and have a smith put it all together for them and it seems to shoot pretty well . I have 3 rifles based on factory actions that shoot pretty well. No need to spend all that cash on one when you can get two or three builds for that price .
     
  12. pondskipper

    pondskipper Well-Known Member

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    For starters, I know good and well the tooling isn't that expensive to buy but the smallest lathe I have access to is a lodge and Shipley that can turn up to a 48" diameter with a bed that 12' long that's done nothing but turn cast iorn and cast steel forgings it's entire life and the bed looks like someone has beaten it to death with a sledge hammer and needless to say is not exactly precise anymore, it wasn't intended for doing small tedious things in the first place, just turning BIG stuff and getting it somewhat close not to mention the fact that if you do it that way you can't check the run out of the "bore" of the barrel on both ends which to me is all I give a damn about, I wouldn't care if the OD was running out 5-10 thou as long as the bore was running true. Now were not talking about benchrest guns here either incase you didn't read all the comments, if I were building a benchrest rifle I could completely see spending 6000 on a custom rifle, in that type of shooting you had better fork out some serious money to be competitive but that's comparing a 6000 bench gun to a 3000 tactical match rifle and is in no way the same, if you spent 6000 on a custom bench rest gun it had damn well better out shoot a 3000 dollar tactical match rifle. If you compare the rifle I'm buildin to a accuracy international 308 which everyone seems to think they can just go fork out god knows how much cash for, come to our local range and spank everyone's asses with it "in tactical matches" and get beat by folks shooting tuned Remington 700 based rifles and even savages now days chambered in 243, 6xc, 260 Remington, 6 and 6.5x47L with probably 1/2 the money tied up in them they wonder why they can't compete most of the time. In all honesty they usually end up pissed off wanting to get rid of them and get out of the sport, I've seen it happen to a lot of people, nice people at that who didn't know any better at the time. And I dont think it's right is all I'm saying. Some people are misinformed, some are just hard headed and others just don't know any better, in some cases its not always the equipment it's the shooter but even at that you just can't justify to me spending that much for a rifle that will in no way be better than the one I'm building. Hands down.
     
  13. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    I believe one can get an old, used Win. 70 action out of a cheap old rifle, square up its bolt and receiver face, replace its firing pin spring with a 26-pound one, have a Kreiger barrel fitted then properly epoxy bedded in a plain solid wood stock for under $1500 these days. If the work's done by someone who does it well and right, it'll shoot just as accurate as current record setting 1000 yard bench rest rifles costing 4 to 5 times as much. Then add the price of the scope and it doesn't have to be more than a few hundred bucks.
     
  14. pondskipper

    pondskipper Well-Known Member

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    Bart, you are exactly right. The only reason I'm using the components that I'm using is that just about everyone has a tuned factory rifle where I shoot an I just wanted to do something a little different but the performance would likely be the same and I still wouldn't be anywhere close to the 6000 price tag