Extreme spread

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Guest, Feb 5, 2005.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Any help appreciated
    I am reloading a .222 x 45 degree improved.
    Norma cases which are very consistent.
    Using a neck sizer and expander ball to .001 under loaded diameter.
    Not neck turning - but have all this gear on order.
    Do not have neck bushing sizer.
    use sliding collet projectile seater.
    Measuring each powder charge of appropiate burn rate powder.
    tried 3 different primers - Fed 205M; CCI BR4 and Winch SR.
    I am getting excesive velocity extreme spreads with 53 SMK and 55 VMax which are my preferred projectiles.
    Tried different seating depths.
    WHY?????????

    APB
     
  2. dcb

    dcb Well-Known Member

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    What barrel twist?
    Just a guess but have you tried lighter bullets.
    It could be, not enough tension on the bullet, especially if there is a fair ammount of jump to the lands.
    if I load light tension i seat into the lands. with the bullet jammed i have a good burn on the powder,
    Also I have found that stick powders work better in my duece
     

  3. goodgrouper

    goodgrouper Well-Known Member

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    Try what dcb said and also switch powders. Try some H322, or Benchmark. The right powder for the gun can make all the difference. The duece improved should not be finicky with powders though, so it may be something more serious. What is the condition of your barrel?
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    dcb/goodgrouper
    Thanks for your input. I have just had a new 1/12 Lilja installed on this rifle. The twist rate was chosen to shoot the 55 VMax projectiles. It is a 6 groove - I ordered a 3 groove but their 3 groove button broke and it was going to take several months extra wait.
    I have found from experience with previous barrels that the best combination of accuracy and velocity is achieved with a powder made here in Australia by Mulwex. It is called Benchmark 1 and I am unsure whether this is similar to the powder you mention. It is a stick powder and one of it's great benefits is that it is not temperature sensitive. I know Mulwex exports powder to the USA but I think it is sold under another brand name over there. Maybe Hodgon's??
    I have a mild entry to the throat of 1 degree 30 minutes and tried different seating depths yesterday.
    Seated to touch lands or zero jump ES was 64fps and 96 fps on 2 separate 5 shot groups.
    Seated .015 into lands ES did drop to 39fps but accuracy was so so and I need to check again. This COL is not entirely satisfactory as it is too long for my magazine.
    As a trial [chasing an accuracy issue also] I loaded 5 at .030 into lands which jumped back up to 60fps ES. Velocities increased as expected with resultant pressure increases.
    The initial tests have been at 110 yds and tracking the group formation shows that the extreme velocity deviation rounds are not the fliers. I know that the longer ranges will start to show a difference however and I want to reduce this erratic ES.
    APB
     
  5. GREYGHOSTt

    GREYGHOSTt <strong>SPONSOR</strong>

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    change brand of brass.
     
  6. goodgrouper

    goodgrouper Well-Known Member

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    I am afraid that at this point, you have to enter into the process of elimination to find the culprit.
    Brass, bullets, powders, seating depths, primers and so on. You might need a total load overhaul, and even then it might not fix. I had a .220 swift that shot 1/4" groups at 100 yards all the time, but I could never ever get the sd down below 20. I tried every trick in the book and no luck. I did proceed to kill chucks out to 700 yards though so I guess it wasn't too bad. But I know what you're going through and it is frustrating. Keep us up to date on your experiments!
     
  7. dcb

    dcb Well-Known Member

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    couple more questions, the norma brass that you use how many times have you fired it and with how many diffrent loads/powders?. if its all new brass. it could be that it need be fire formed to your chamber before you start load developement. then if it is fire formed with a few diffrent loads and the brass is mixed you could be getting diffrent internal volumes? Are you using Moly?? I have been using 26.5 grs, WW760 powder,WW primers seated 2.702" to the Ojive with a 40gr vmax in my sako, it likes a lot of jump. this is a slightly compressed load very consistent SDis 8.7, only thing it's a little dirty.
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hi dcb
    You have something there about # times fired etc and internal volume.
    All these cases are fireformed to my Improved chamber but there are different ages and number of times fired.
    Tried some 40VMax yesterday and they were better with extreme spread of 29fps over 5 shots.
    What caliber are you talking with 2.7etc? this could not be a .222 case or is that a misprint?
    APB
     
  9. dcb

    dcb Well-Known Member

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    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gifmiss print, should have been 1.702"
    Sounds like you need to start with a fresh batch of brass.
    I have had some luck with anneling just the necks and then fire forming. It's easy to over do the anneling on the necks of the 222 making the brass too soft and then you loose all you bullet grip. if you do try it only try a few pieces of brass. till you figure out how much heat to apply.
    Dave
    One other thing to comment on. If you are having an accuracy problem with the 222. I read that some where in your post.
    Try tuning your load with the 52/53gr bullets to an average of 3200f/s.
    Any SD under about 15 should deliver groups around .3 to .4"
    What brand of chronagraph are you using?
    It may only be accurate to with in 15 to 20 SD @300f/s depending on how far apart the screenns are.
     
  10. rost495

    rost495 Well-Known Member

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    Goodgrouper makes a good point. Don't get hung up on ES or SD. Sure watch it. And its important way on out there. But rely on what the target tells you. I've had loads that had even more ES than what GG tells off and had rifles shooting 1.5 inch groups at 600 yards. Of course if ES is wide and groups are wide.....

    Personally ES and SD are the worst things ever thought of to use with a chrono in my opinion. In fact if you'll watch each shot , many times when the chrono says it'll be in the group its outt, and when it says it should be out and high (or low) its in the middle.....

    Jeff