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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
Extreme spread / Standard Deviation
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<blockquote data-quote="Steve Shelp" data-source="post: 21867" data-attributes="member: 22"><p>Monte,</p><p> Well moly isn't all bad..... it's just a horse of a different color that takes different TLC. With many larger caliber rifles there has been adverse things it causes. But I must admit that I still use moly in my 223 Remington VS without any problems. But a rifle shot with moly has to be cleaned differently and has different charactieristics than a bare bullet barrel does. wwheew say that 3 times real fast. There's many varminter shooters out there shooting smaller case capacities and have gone several hundred rounds without cleaning and no adverse affects of moly. My 223 is one of them. I get done shooting and push a very lightly oiled patch down the bore with Kroil and that's it. Takes 2-3 shots to settle it down and we're off and running again. But if I give it a good scrubbing with a brush, JB compound, soak, patch it out, soak, patch it out, etc..... It takes 8-10 rounds at least to settle it down to get it to group consistantly. This rifle is so predictable that my first shot out of a slightly olied bore is going to be 5/8-3/4" low and the others start going into the same group. I can usually hold for the first shot and put it somewhat into the group. </p><p></p><p>Now I used moly quite extensively in my 300 Win Mag Sendero also. Again it shot really good for awhile, but then the wheels fell off it. Couldn't shoot 1.5" groups at 100yds and my very last group shot in competition with it was at the 2000 PA World Open match. The first day I shot a 27" group that was litterly all over the paper and didn't get all shots on paper the second day after much cleaning that night. The week before in VA I shot a 13" group with 1 out. And jsut before that it shot (2) 7" and (1) 9" group in a row. So the rifle would shoot. But it got a buildup of a very hard residue about 3-5" in front of the throat. NO bore solvent that I used on it would touch it. I eventually took a tight patch with 600 grit lapping compound to get it out. Recrowned the barrel and the next (2) 100yd groups out of that barrel were 1/2" 5 shot groups. I had to sell that rifle and the guy that has it is still busting clay birds and milk jugs out past 500yds with it today.... (without moly). </p><p>Yes I do believe the accuracy of that Chrony is part of this equation also. You need more than 1' spacing between your screens to get a good reading.</p><p> So your 220 Swift may do very well with moly. I don't have any eperience with a Swift and moly. But you need to use it on all bullets or none at all. You didn't say if you were mixing bare and moly bullets or not. If you do use it, experiement with different cleaning techniques. Walt Berger has his method posted on his web page that alot of folks have used successfully.</p><p> As for the pressure signs, sorry about the assumption there. Yes, I've seen new cases have ejector marks in them at the first firing, but go on to use that load many times over in the same case without a problem for many loadings.</p><p> As for the case length issue, keep them as long as possible and miniumum trim them for now. You won't be able to tell much difference with a variation of a couple of thousands in case OAL. The neck has opened up and released that bullet long before the boattail passes the case mouth. I wouldn't read to much it this. Keep firing until they trim up evenly.</p><p></p><p>Not trying to throw more monkey wrenches at you but I wonder if seating your bullets out that far is there really is enough case neck support of the bullet. I had this "problem" in my 223 mentioned above. Eventually seated them back to maintain some case/bullet concentricty and jump the bullets about .040". Not the best accuracy and not like it use to be 10yrs ago, but it does shoot consistantly .4-.5" group now rather than the flyers I got when try to seat the bullet out to touch the lands. It prefered to be .005" into the lands in it's better day. But that was years ago.</p><p></p><p>Keep us updated,</p><p>Steve</p><p></p><p>[ 02-11-2002: Message edited by: Steve Shelp ]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Steve Shelp, post: 21867, member: 22"] Monte, Well moly isn't all bad..... it's just a horse of a different color that takes different TLC. With many larger caliber rifles there has been adverse things it causes. But I must admit that I still use moly in my 223 Remington VS without any problems. But a rifle shot with moly has to be cleaned differently and has different charactieristics than a bare bullet barrel does. wwheew say that 3 times real fast. There's many varminter shooters out there shooting smaller case capacities and have gone several hundred rounds without cleaning and no adverse affects of moly. My 223 is one of them. I get done shooting and push a very lightly oiled patch down the bore with Kroil and that's it. Takes 2-3 shots to settle it down and we're off and running again. But if I give it a good scrubbing with a brush, JB compound, soak, patch it out, soak, patch it out, etc..... It takes 8-10 rounds at least to settle it down to get it to group consistantly. This rifle is so predictable that my first shot out of a slightly olied bore is going to be 5/8-3/4" low and the others start going into the same group. I can usually hold for the first shot and put it somewhat into the group. Now I used moly quite extensively in my 300 Win Mag Sendero also. Again it shot really good for awhile, but then the wheels fell off it. Couldn't shoot 1.5" groups at 100yds and my very last group shot in competition with it was at the 2000 PA World Open match. The first day I shot a 27" group that was litterly all over the paper and didn't get all shots on paper the second day after much cleaning that night. The week before in VA I shot a 13" group with 1 out. And jsut before that it shot (2) 7" and (1) 9" group in a row. So the rifle would shoot. But it got a buildup of a very hard residue about 3-5" in front of the throat. NO bore solvent that I used on it would touch it. I eventually took a tight patch with 600 grit lapping compound to get it out. Recrowned the barrel and the next (2) 100yd groups out of that barrel were 1/2" 5 shot groups. I had to sell that rifle and the guy that has it is still busting clay birds and milk jugs out past 500yds with it today.... (without moly). Yes I do believe the accuracy of that Chrony is part of this equation also. You need more than 1' spacing between your screens to get a good reading. So your 220 Swift may do very well with moly. I don't have any eperience with a Swift and moly. But you need to use it on all bullets or none at all. You didn't say if you were mixing bare and moly bullets or not. If you do use it, experiement with different cleaning techniques. Walt Berger has his method posted on his web page that alot of folks have used successfully. As for the pressure signs, sorry about the assumption there. Yes, I've seen new cases have ejector marks in them at the first firing, but go on to use that load many times over in the same case without a problem for many loadings. As for the case length issue, keep them as long as possible and miniumum trim them for now. You won't be able to tell much difference with a variation of a couple of thousands in case OAL. The neck has opened up and released that bullet long before the boattail passes the case mouth. I wouldn't read to much it this. Keep firing until they trim up evenly. Not trying to throw more monkey wrenches at you but I wonder if seating your bullets out that far is there really is enough case neck support of the bullet. I had this "problem" in my 223 mentioned above. Eventually seated them back to maintain some case/bullet concentricty and jump the bullets about .040". Not the best accuracy and not like it use to be 10yrs ago, but it does shoot consistantly .4-.5" group now rather than the flyers I got when try to seat the bullet out to touch the lands. It prefered to be .005" into the lands in it's better day. But that was years ago. Keep us updated, Steve [ 02-11-2002: Message edited by: Steve Shelp ] [/QUOTE]
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