Extra powder for longer OAL

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by jpbaker, Mar 15, 2012.

  1. jpbaker

    jpbaker Well-Known Member

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    I have a .223 that im loading up some 62gr TSX bullets for.

    Im using Varget, barnes info says OAL 2.25." If looking for accuracy, should start around .03-.07 off the lands.

    On my rifle .05 off lands is @ 2.36". Soooo, im seating out aprox an extra .1".

    How much more powder do I use to make up this extra capacity. Some one told me 2-3 extra grains.

    I understand always start low, but im looking for a decent starting point rather than starting 2-3 grains too low.

    TKS
    JPB
     

  2. JackinSD

    JackinSD Well-Known Member

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    I understand always start low, follow by a "but"? Evidentially you don't.
     

  3. jpbaker

    jpbaker Well-Known Member

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    I do start low, sorry if I wasent to clear.

    Data changes when you change COAL.... why would I start at 23.5gr "book min" when I should be starting at 26gr. because of the extra COAL. (by the way yes I have some started at "book min" and worked up. These are loaded at an OAL of 2.25".)

    That I what im looking for. For instance, if I did this with a 300WM and loaded out to the lands and did not exceed "book max" loads, my 300wm would be more like a 30-06 because of decreased pressures, due to the fact im out an extra .2" with my COAL


    TKS
    JPB
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2012
  4. JackinSD

    JackinSD Well-Known Member

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    I hope someone else chimes in. There is so much wrong with your statements that I don't want to seem like a jerk trying to correct them all.
     
  5. jpbaker

    jpbaker Well-Known Member

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    Ok, now im severly confused.

    I found that post that I got this info from... It was regarding a 300wm load.

    There is the post:

    Re: .300wm 165gr SST LOAD
    You have to have an old manual to get the truth, to many lawyers involved in the newer ones, if your looking for accuracy then your probably going to start loading at a longer oal to get you closer to the lands, rule of thumb with bt bullets is for every .100" further your out you will need 2.7-3.1grns more powder, obviously the lighter bullets get the 3.1 example take. What you want to load a 165 with 75.5grns at 3.34 if you load it to 3.44" that same load would be 78.6grns, this is to maintain the charge density. Iff accuracy is what you want use Imr4350 starting around 69grns and cci br2 or fed210m primers and not magnum primers, this will likely give you the best results in all aspects.

    ___________________________________________________________

    Someone please unconfuse me,

    TKS
    JPB
     
  6. JackinSD

    JackinSD Well-Known Member

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    To correct one thing you posted earlier: The Importance of Bullet Seating Depth | The Reloading Press

    Straight from Hornady 4th Edition page 15.

    "When the bullet is seated to tough the rifling, it does not move when the pressure is low. It takes greatly INCREASED pressure to force it into the rifling. As the rapidly expanding gases now find less room than they should have at this time in their burning, the pressure rise under these conditions is both rapid and excessive."

    So, going over the "book max" when touching the lands is an extremely bad idea.

    While creating more room for powder sounds great, and many guns shoot best when loaded close to the lands, touching the lands or even jammed. It will depend on the combination of components involved to insure that putting that extra powder in does not create too much pressure.

    Loading the bullet to touch the lands or jammed, it is highly recommend that you never use a max listed load.

    Comparing any of load data from a 300 WM to a 223 just won't work.

    If you correctly worked up a load for 2.25" OAL do the same for one with a 2.36" OAL. Just remember that if you are touching or jammed into the lands you must lower your max load and watch for pressure signs are you go through the process.
     
  7. 375fan

    375fan Well-Known Member

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    I am in agreement with with JackinSD, the closer to the lands you seat a bullet the higher the pressure with a given powder charge. I have experimented with this working up loads.

    To prove this (you need a chronograph) using a given powder charge (same amount of powder thru whole process) load up 3 rds. at a oal of 2.25 then load 3 rds. at 2.30 continue this pattern till bullets are almost touching lands. You will find as the bullets get closer to the lands velocity will increase, which means your pressure is increasing.
     
  8. WapitiBob

    WapitiBob Well-Known Member

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    " Someone please unconfuse me,"

    Quit believing everything you read on the Internet.
     
  9. jpbaker

    jpbaker Well-Known Member

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    Cant say I do believe everything, that is why im asking for clearification instead of just going and doing it.

    OK well, I loaded them like normal, low and worked up, and I guess I dont have to worry about the extra COAL giving me lower pressers/lower velocity.

    Oh and im not planning on "jamming" them into lands they are now loaded .055 of lands.

    TKS
    JPB
     
  10. LouBoyd

    LouBoyd Well-Known Member

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    For handloading all types of non-standard loads and cartridges I strongly recommend the computer program Quickload. quickload quicktarget software
    It does an excellent job of answering those kinds of question. It's the best money I've ever spent on reloading equipment.
     
  11. kcebcj

    kcebcj Well-Known Member

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    If you look at your reloading manual it will give you a COAL number. That is the length used for the loads shown for that particular cartridge. The max loads are relevant to max pressure at that length. That is the way I understand it anyway.

    Set the bullet anywhere you want but remember the closer you get to the lands the higher the pressures get. So what if you have to start 3-4 grains down. Trigger time is good and you don't blow you and your rifle up. Some bullets like Berger shoot really good close to the lands just don't try to short cut the process. Once you get near the book max in your testing you really need to pay attention for all the signs of over pressure.

    Some fellas say when first testing start right at the lands and work the powder up in 1/2gr increments until you see pressure signs then back off to a safe point. Then anything you do such as seating the bullet deeper is safe. Everyone has their own way of doing this but bottom line is being safe. The cost of a few extra loads should not be a part of the equation.

    The suggestion to have Quick Load for reference is a good one.