Excessive fouling-need suggestions

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by PrimeTime, Feb 19, 2002.

  1. PrimeTime

    PrimeTime Well-Known Member

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    May 9, 2001
    I am experiencing excessive fouling in several rifles. One is a stock 700 VLS in 260, one is a custom with Krieger barrel in 280 Ackley, and the last is a Shilen barrel in 6.5-06.
    Even when shooting only 5 rounds, after a few patches to get the powder residue out, you can see that the lands are completely full of copper. It does come out, but requires a fair amount of brushing with JB's or Bore Shine. The bullets I shoot are mainly Mach Kings but also shoot some Ballistic Tips. The only common thread among these barrels is that they are all chromoly. The 2 custom barrels both have over 100 rounds and the Rem. has over 1,000.
    It's a real pain in the neck to gather this much copper and spend all the time cleaning.
    My other rifles can shoot 20 rounds of the exact same bullets and not get any copper whatsoever. Are the MK's known for leaving copper or am I just unlucky. Possibly I didn't break the barrels in correctly although they were cleaned after each shot for the first 10 to 20 rounds or so.
    Any suggestions would be appreciated.
     
  2. ceesan

    ceesan New Member

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    Jan 12, 2002
    I would suggest trying firelapping. A economical kit is available from midway. www.midwayusa.com
     

  3. Darryl Cassel

    Darryl Cassel Well-Known Member

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    May 7, 2001
    Hello Prime

    If anything, the BT will give you more copper fouling from what Ray and I have found.

    The MKs are what MOST shooters use at Williamsport and if they gave off excessive copper fouling, they wouldn't be used to the extent that they are.

    Keep working with the barrels as much as possible. I like Shooters Choice or Butches, and mixed with 1/2 Kroil and I also use "Sweets" and JB compound.
    After cleaning run a patch with Kroil on it in the barrel and store that way.
    Do not dry the barrel out when you fire your first round. Fire a wet barrel first shot. That's your fouling round.

    I think the BTs are your problem though. Never had that happen to a MK unless the barrel was not broke in correctly of if someone had shot MOLY bullets in it too.
    Sometime the Kreiger barrels (cromMoly) takes quite sometime to get broke in.

    Breakin procedure on new barrels
    1 shot and clean 5X
    2 Shots and clean 5X
    3 shots and clean 5X
    At this point (30 rounds fired) the barrel should be OK --if there still is excessive fouling and the bore still feels rough when running in the patch go on to the next 4 and 5 steps which will include 45 more rounds fired.

    4 Shots and clean 5X
    5 shots and clean 5x

    Later
    DC
    PS---As an after thought, the Crom-moly barrels are actualy HARDER then the Stainless steels but, they don't disapate heat as fast as the stainless does. That's why it takes longer sometimes to break them in. keep firing and cleaning, they will smooth out.

    [ 02-19-2002: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]
     
  4. rlipson

    rlipson Well-Known Member

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    Dec 21, 2001
    PrimeTime,

    With all due respect to Dave W., I think fire lapping a custom barrel would not be my first strategy. And if I did get to that point I'd call Kreiger first and discuss it with them. Most custom bbl's are hand lapped pretty smooth, essentially doing what firelapping does for a factory barrel. Kreiger might offer to look at your barrel and work with you, but if you fire lap it they'll probably say you're on your own.

    I tried "brush" lapping a factory barrel and it worked except it boogered up the crown. After recrowning it shot better and fouled less--but it was a visibly rough factory barrel.

    I have also used the NECO firelapping kit with varying success. David Tubb has a "final finish" firelapping kit that I have read other's positive posts about.

    Roger

    [ 02-19-2002: Message edited by: rogerinneb ]
     
  5. jhendri2

    jhendri2 Well-Known Member

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    Oct 25, 2001
    I used the Final Finish System from David Tubb this weekend. The rifle would average 1.5" 3 shot groups and 2" 5 shot groups. After lapping with his kit, the rifle shot an average of .39" 3 shot groups and .76" 5 shot groups with the same loads. The biggest benefit was the ease of cleaning after using the entire kit.

    It was a factory barrel that I lapped, so I can't speak for custom barrels. He does have a procedure for custom barrels that uses finer polish that the manufacturer.

    For factory barrels, I would HIGHLY reccommend his Final Finish System.

    Jim
     
  6. rlipson

    rlipson Well-Known Member

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    338,

    Where did you get your Final Finish kit from?

    Roger
     
  7. jhendri2

    jhendri2 Well-Known Member

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    Oct 25, 2001
    I bought mine from Cabelas for $24.95 + S&H. The can also be ordered from www.davidtubb.com (you will be redirected to another web site from there but it will take you the final finish site).

    If you need anymore info on it, let me know.

    Jim