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Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by yotkiller, Nov 3, 2006.
I am looking a buying a 6mm barrel with the helical fluting from ershaw, is this a good choice?
Er Shaw barrels are good entry level stuff, by no means high quality. Remember you get what you pay for. If you can spend a few more $, get a better barrel. The bores are pretty rough. The ones i have put on shoot ok.
I've seen a few of their barrels on guns that ER Shaw did the barreling and they all shot ok , probably better than a factory tube but no where near match quality probably in the 3/4 to 1 moa mark with factory ammo.
I've never had to clean one so I can't comment on their internal quality.
ive also used a couple Adams & Bennit barrels and they were ok , an upgrade from the factory barrels anyway.
Once you get a quality tube your ruined and relize that they are worth ever penny , so long as their installed properly anyway.
I have fitted several lower priced barrels for customers that did not want to spend the money on top end barrels. THere have been a few shaw barrels and alot of A&B barrels.
TO be honest, I have yet to have one not hold right at 1/2 moa fitting them to a properly set up receiver with good bedding. In fact the very first rifle I ever built was on a commercial Mauser M98 receiver that my wife bought me for a Christmas gift. The barrel I used was an A&B barrel and chambered it in 6.5-06 AI. That rifle will shoot sub 1/2 moa groups all day long with the 140 gr A-Max at 3050 fps.
IT did however take A LONG TIME to break in that barrel but when it did it has performed extremely well.
If the machining is top notch most of these barrels will shoot, the variation you get is in the bore finish as BD408 has correctly stated. Some will break in well, some take a long time and some will have to be cleaned every 15 rounds for their entire life.
What you get with a top end match barrel is that you know every barrel you buy will be finely lapped and more then likely a great shooter with every barrel you fit.
It is a crap shoot with these lower priced barrels. I am not saying every one of these barrels will be a 1/2 moa rifle because they will not. The main risk you take is getting a barrel with a poor bore finish and that risk is relatively high with the lower priced barrels such as the Shaw and A&B barrels.
You would be much better off to save up for a couple extra months and invest in a top end barrel blank. You will be much happier in the end with your rifle.
Just my opinion,
guys thanks for the info. I am also looking a at a barrel from Rock creek barrels,have you guys had any experince with this barrels.
I've got two both is 30 cal and both shoot awsome , clean realy easly and harly foul after about the 10th break in shot the velocitys easly exceed the factory listed ones so I guess that their is some thueth to the 5R rifleing being a bit faster.. I've also got a Obermayer barrel with the 5R rifeling and its a great tube also very fast barrel. Rock Creek barrels are on the top of the heap with Lilja , Hart and Kreiger.
My friend and I just built semi-customs using Shaw barrels. We have each fired about 100rds. Mine is a 280 on a Mauser. His is a 257 on a 700SA. Mine is a 280. His shoots everything under an inch. I've tried Partitions, Ballistic tips and Game kings. Pt's shoot about 1.25-1.6. It was my first choice as it shoots well in my 7x57 and the one I tried it first. I then tried the Gamekings and BTs. All shoot less than an inch. The best so far is .282, alth.ough the stars were probably all alligned on that one. We do not weigh/seperate brass or bullets. These are .80" barreled 'sendero' type rifles. We have about $700-$800 in our guns. They are made to hunt with not for targets. If I were building a $2000, gun I might go with a more expensive barrel, but for long range field gun I sing the praises of my Shaw. capt david /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I've been Chief Designer at Continental Machine and Tool Co. off and on since 1998 (with some time off spent at Smith and Wesson). For reference, we make our own retail product, Stag Arms, pretty much everything on the Colt's Military M-16/M-4 except the barrel and plastic, and about all the parts in Rock River, Bushmaster/Remington, and a lot of Armalite. I worked at Colt's on the M-4 design team back in the early '90's, and I've worked with Roy Piontek down at E.R. Shaw for about 12 years.
Roy, the former general manager of Shaw, took the place over about 11 years ago, and turned the product from O.K. to amazing. Let me stress this one point: I've seen hundreds of thousands of his barrels in the last dozen years, and they are the best mass produced barrel in the country, sold for $20 less than their competitors.
They make Remington's centerfire barrels. Anybody who can cut a 40X can make my AR-15 tube any day. On average, a Krieger, Obermyer, Pac-Nor, or Lilja hand cut barrel will edge out most Shaw barrels by a small fraction of an inch at a hundred, at three times the price. But even there, I see so many amazing exceptions.
Unless you're an olympic competitor or a military sniper, is it worth the extra 200 bucks to shoot three eighths of an inch instead of three quarters?
A Douglas Premium (only 15% of their production) will about equal the typical Shaw, and a Hart will often shoot with a hand cut Krieger. But remember, what gets sold as a Hart is, like the Douglas Premium, a small, select portion of their production, most of which gets sold under other names.
My meat guns (.358 Norma Mag and 30-06) are built around barreled blanks I got from Shaw, and I compete in Highpower with a bone stock 20 inch AR heavy profile. 24.5 grains of 4895 and a 77 grain MatchKing benches me close to half MOA with iron sights, all the time. That's 50 shots across the National Match course and 10 foulers and sighters, a match and a practice session minimum each month.
Again, my opinions are based on close to half a million barrels, over more than a decade. Consistency of the rifling twist is flawless. Most manufacturers stretch the front few inches as the button runs dry. Roy doesn't, and no, I won't tell you how. Bore and groove run within two ten thousanths at worst, and if there's a taper, it's only a tenth or so, and gets smaller toward the muzzle for gas control.
The critical function characteristic of any M-16/AR-15 barrel is chamber finish, and if it's over 12 or 14 micro, reliability goes to hell. Shaw's stuff runs a 6 at worst, and I've seen 2's.
Simple comment: If my butt was on the line and I had a factory made weapon in my hands, I would want the barrel to be a Shaw.
I know several guys that have bought Shaw barrels over the years. Some shoot fairly well and some shoot like a blunderbus. Onething they all seem to have in common is barrel life. Looks like they are using a high sulphur content steel to aid in machining (I sent a piece to the lab once that was cut off a 22-250 barrel). I think they'll do well in something like a .222 or a .223, but in something like a 6/.284; I'd be looking elsewhere. A standard chamber 6mm remington ought to be fine with it's long neck length.
As for a compairson to a Douglas barrel; I can't say much as I've only had two or three over the years. But each one shot very well (all were Sharpshooter barrels), and had little trouble printing in the high threes. Neither will run with a Bruxe if that matters. If my shots were under 400 yards, then most any of the prefit stuff will work.
Now I know who made the barrel on my one lone Mod. 700!! A genuine tomato stake if there ever was one
I have used a couple, both fouled more than the factory barrels they replaced and accuracy was on par with factory(Savage). Replaced those with Brux barrels, accuracy is sub 1/4 moa at 100 and I never need to use a brush to clean them. You get what you pay for from what I have seen. If you are paying for all the other work to be done on a rifle why handicap yourself with something that might be a good shooter or just an ok shooter.
The way I look at it in a prefit barrel; you cannot go wrong with a Pacnor at about $150 more than the Shaw. (assuming it actually is a $200 barrel). The chamber can be ordered in non standard (tight neck and many wildcats at no extra charge). I think the Bruxe is a better barrel blank.
I'm planning on sending a 700 Remington to Pacnor for a switch barrel installation (.222 Rem. NM and .223 NM, both with a .244 neck). Both barrels will be 22" or 23" in a generic #5.5 contour. With all that I expect to pay zero extra fees unless I decide to go with a barrel nut. I'll get exactly the chamber I want, and exactly the twist rate I'm after (1:12). I fully expect both barrels to be consistent 1/4" guns (least wise I hope).
On the otherhand I shoot a Douglas barreled Savage in 6/250AI. It's a solid high twos rifle on a good day. Not bad for a $330 barrel, but there are things I'd like to change on it. Barrel is a little longer than I'd prefer for the contour (standard Savage). It does clean very easilly (three patches). Has a no turn neck chamber, and can see some room for improvement. Barrel was broken in, in about 35 rounds.
This turned out to be one of the better threads on Shaw barrels. Good info, and experienced opinions.
Welcome to the forum Ed. Your post is the way to start off with a bang. I hope you stay with it. My one experience with E.R. Shaw barrels was about 40 yrs ago. I bought a .270 Winchester on a military Mauser action with a 26" sporter weight Shaw barrel installed and blued by them. It was good enough to win several Any-Any rifle matches at 600 yds. (after my brother got it from me and started shooting it).
I'm fixing to put together a .220 Swift for myself with an older (10-15 Yrs?) Adams & Bennett short-chambered 24" cr-moly varmint weight barrel that'll be screwed onto an engraved commercial Mauser action. I don't know if A & B made the barrel or if Shaw made it, but I hope it's a good one.